Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 15, 10 June - 31 July 1917, Part 18

Conflict:
First World War, 1914–18
Part of Quest:
Sir John Monash (General, b.1865 - d.1931)
Subject:
  • Documents and letters
Status:
Open for review
Accession number:
Sir John Monash, Personal Files
Difficulty:

Page 1 / 10

an -2- 30/7/27. minor offensives, the muddle about the heavy artillery shoots, the subservience of your views to those of your subordinates, and your disposition to magnify, instead of to minimize, your difficulties, and the supposed stress on your troops, are only minor evidences, but all pointing in the same direction. You must realize that, in the case of a higher Commander, one looks for the very reverse of such a frame of mind; and, backed as he always is by the full weight and influence of higher authority, he should be the last man of his whole command to become disorganized, or to let others plainly perceive that he has. Consider the consequences upon his subordinates, and upon the fighting value of his whole command. - I feel that I need not elaborate this point of view to you.- Frankly, I have lost confidence in your ability to see this thing through, in a manner which will get the best value out of the Brigade. I would like you sincerely to reflect whether, in the light of what I have stated, you feel yourself justified in continuing, at this critical stage of the war, to bear the respon- sibility of the command of a Brigade in the fighting line.- 1 particularly do not wish to do anything harsh, and least of all to have to say anything officially which may reflect upon you hereafter. - I think it is due to our 12 months’ association (1 hope for you a pleasant one) that I should offer you the oppor- tunity of yourself taking the initiative. - If, after reflection, you feel disposed to do so, I shall be glad to help you in pointing the way. Yours sincerely, M. Brg. Ser. Tobson
37/7/17 Tobson Inadeguate technical knowledge Effect of stress neves & dispondency. gotsrattled, didn't know what he was doing or saying. Axios, stained & overwrought appearance & manner. At Confirence of 24th: - He can't stand any more after 28th If Ters dolont come by 36, we shant he able to carry onr We hevent got the labon Glad gomn aren't going to ask me to establish post VIII Anxiety to get back before shelling starts. indiscreet utterances in bont of Subordinate officer General Pessimism; Anxuty to get Brigade out. and incidentsi Two Fanues se ports F. C,9, &10. Confusion re cleasing the ling F Artillery Shoots Never going arrned line Killiams. C.03: Brigale not pulling together - Units not doing what they'ss told. Too much post office Re tur - Have only got to touch the button &c A. - not supported Motor hobries
31 S Jarmy Forn O. 213. &Cr Form (An hooks of 100. MESSAGES AND SIGNALS. No. of Mosense Office Stamp Necotsed Sent, or sent out ro Fro 2 Aen fort Wixt Charges to collect By D0 manenl Service Instructions. 24 Dymm no Irmnt . Re n enn Handed in at muum this 70 M SSMNO AAA CrGnat omdredyt 124 p aptn viz tos concerned till LINE bad WINDE 1t on and W be tem tak Yerrr St FROM in PLACESTIME Thit ths Nisltt H Craist NAlt Vegttiet MLEE MATEN MREE MRSS, MNMISIMINR
127 am Formn C. 2123. &Cr Form 1p ke of 200 MESSAGES AND SIGNALS. No of Mesense Office Stamp Reconed Sent, or sent out D NoL s h 0 A tonnmmand M t Charges to collect DOonmn Mmmt Service Instructions.) Handel 0 [8619] b nentent f t 70 Lewy B B JAS SMISS AAA OANAR Arma Corrd ish the er 144 the t 44 16 Operl today 4 FROM PLAGRATIME 7 21 The the Cilt He Craet Hllt Fersirct EAMEEMATMOI MSANPER TMY RAS CPASE MerMSEMNBA
MAIPGL. THIRD AUSTRALLAY DIVISIO MOUNDED CASES ANMETEED TO ADYANCED DRESSIVY STATTON EAWDARRR FARM = 3.a.n. 31.7.17 to 6.p.m. 31.7.17. OTTOO OTHER RAWKS. Hounded Wounded .J.D.I. C2330A A.L.F. 266 10 19 B. L.P. German 15 Prisoners. SOTOGCROT CSDSS 16 - 5/7/17 3363 POTAL 299 46
Casnalties admitted to Hospital of officers NYDN Gus A7 230 2 BEI. Huns Bann to 3 prn 31. -15 3/1/1 25
wounded Mro' KANOANAR 10 am From Zero to Officers Auspatian 15 terman & Lost Sur
ille OR Ari6 10 Arminor (43 35 munnary Killed W Estimate only agne Wounded or 150 1of 35 OR 9 150 OR.
Sketch to accompany notes on operations of 43rd and 42nd Battalions, July 31, 191 35 te O STEUNHS 3 Ro 18 &. la II APPRONIMATE POSITION NEW LINE AND POSTS (ITa to VIII. 3RD AUSTRALIAN DIV. at about midnight July 31/ Aug 1, 1917 4 10.000 2
Sketch to accompany notes on operations of 43rd and 420d Battalions, July 31, 1917. 35 b 5 a 5 50 te 4 20 STETGNRS in RO. X o i 8 5 h APPRONIMATE POSITION NEW LINE AND POSTS (ITa to VIII SRD AUSTRALIAN DIV. cit about midnight - July 31/ Aug 1, 1917 N 10.0001

-2-
30/ 7 /17.
minor offensive, the muddle about the heavy artillery shoots,
the subservience of your views to those of your subordinates, and

your disposition to magnify, instead of to minimise, your

difficulties, and the supposed stress on your troops, are only
minor evidences. but all pointing in the same direction.
You must realise that, in the case of a higher
Commander, one looks for the very reverse of such a frame of mind;
and, backed as he always is by the full weight and influence of
higher authority, he should be the last man of his whole command
to become disorganised, or to let others plainly perceive that he
has.
Consider the consequences upon his subordinates, and
upon the fighting value of his whole command. - I feel that I
need not elaborate this point of view to you. -
Frankly, I have lost confidence in your ability to see
this thing through, in a manner which will get the best value out
of the Brigade.  I would like you sincerely to reflect whether,
in the light of what I have stated, you feel yourself justified in
continuing, at this critical stage of the war, to bear the responsibility
of the command of a Brigade in the fighting line. -
I particularly do not wish to do anything harsh, and least
of all to have to say anything officially which may reflect upon
you hereafter. - I think it is due to our 12 months' association
(I hope for you a pleasant one) that I should offer you the opportunity
of yourself taking the initiatives. - If, after reflection,
you feel disposed to do so, I shall be glad to help you in pointing
the way. -
Yours sincerely,

J.M.

Brig. Gen. Jobson

 

Jobson
31/ 7 /17
Inadequate technical knowledge.
Effect of stress - nerves & despondency.
got rattled, didn't know what he was doing or saying.
Anxious, strained & overwrought appearance & manner.
At Conference of 24th :- He can't stand any more after 28th.
If Zero doesn't come by 28th , we shan't be able to carry on.
"We haven't got the labour"
"Glad you aren't going to ask me to establish post VIII

Anxiety to get back before shelling starts.

Indiscreet utterances in front of Subordinate officers

General Pessimism ; Anxiety to get Brigade out.

{[O?]] incidents : - Two failures re posts 7,8,9, & 10.

Confusion re clearing the line for Artillery Shoots.

Never going around line -Williams.

C.O's. Units not doing what 

Brigade not pulling together -Units not doing what they're told .

Too much "post office"

Re Rum - "Have only got to touch the button & to. - Not supported .

Motor Lorries

 

189

31/7/17

Army Form C. 2123.

(in books of 100.)

"C" Form

Prefix ....JM Code...[GF[?]] Words..30..

Received 

From [[?]]

By..West..

Sent, or sent out

At..............m.

To..............

By...........

Office Stamp.

AY31.VH17C—

Telegraph

Handed in at ............Once...130pm Receive 8.12 pm

To...3rd Aus Divn

*Sender's Number GA370 Day of month 31 In reply to Number AAA

Corps Commdr wishes to congratulate

All concerned in the capture 

of WINDMILL LINE and the

number of prisoners and machine

Guns taken.

FROM 2 Anzac

PLACE & TIME

*This line should be erased if not required.

(R 8188) Wt w 7496-M857 250,000 Pads 1/17 H&S (E489.) Forms/c.2123/

 

191

"C" Form  31/7/17 Army Form C2123

(in books of 100)

MESSAGES AND SIGNALS No. of Message     

Prefix JM [[Code GG Words 24  

Received   Sent, or sent out   Office Stamp

From  Bn   At      m

By  West    To........

                      By..............

Service Instructions

..............Bn..............

Handed in at.........Once 9 35pm  Receive 8.18pm

To 3rd Aus Divn

*Sender's Number  Day of Month  In reply to Number   AAA

GA 374                          31

Army Comdr wishes to congratulate

all corps on the success 

of todays operations

FROM  2 Anzac Corps

PLACE & TIME  7.30 pm

*This line should be erased if not required.

(R 8188) Wt w 7496-M857 250,000 Pads 1/17 H&S (E489.) Forms/c.2123/

 

 

JHA/FGL.  THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION  31/7/17

WOUNDED CASES ADMITTED TO ADVANCED DRESSING STATION

KANDAHAR FARM - 3,a.m. 31.7.17 to 6. p.m. 31.7.17.

           OFFICERS       OTHER RANKS.

            Wounded    Wounded     N.Y.D.N.   Gassed   Died   TOTAL

A.I.F.   10                      266                 19               2             2           299

B.E.F.     -                      6                     1                 -              -            7

German   1                  15                     -                 -              -            16

Prisoners.

Stretcher cases - 46%

______________________  

[[initials]]

 

           
Casualties admitted to Hospital. 31/1/17
       Officers    OR.      NYDN   Gns

A.I.F.         9      230       18          2     = 259

B.E.F.        -           5                      1     = 9

Huns                     1        14                 = 15

3 a.m. to 3 p.m. 31.1.17

 

31/1/17

Wounded thro' KANDAHAR

---------------------------

From Zero to 10 am

Australian - Officers    OR

                        5               151

German   -     1                  7

========================

re Lost Gun.

 

31/1/17

                                  Killed             Wounded

 [[?]]               off.       OR               off          OR

ANVIL  (4a    _          10                4              75

ADMIRAL (4a 1        25                5              75

_______________________________________

                           1        35                9            150

__________________________________________

Summary - Killed 1 off  35 OR.

W  9.  150 OR.

Estimate Only

 

Sketch to accompany notes on

operations of 43rd and 42nd

Battalions. July 31 1917.

Diagram - see original document

APPROXIMATE POSITION

NEW LINE AND POSTS (IIIa TO VIII) 

3rd AUSTRALIAN DIV

at about midnight

July 31/Aug 1, 1917    [[JMC?]]  1/10,000

 

Sketch to accompany notes on

operations of 43rd and 42nd

Battalions. July 31 1917.

Diagram - see original document

APPROXIMATE POSITION

NEW LINE AND POSTS (IIIa TO VIII) 

3rd AUSTRALIAN DIV

at about midnight

July 31/Aug 1, 1917    [[JMC?]]  1/10,000

 

 

Last edited by:
Maralyn KMaralyn K
Last edited on:

Last updated: