General Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 17, 11 February - 18 March 1918, Part 4

Conflict:
First World War, 1914–18
Subject:
  • Documents and letters
Status:
Awaiting approval
Accession number:
RCDIG0000627
Difficulty:
3

Page 1 / 10

LCol. Lindsay (2. 5av) How has prsent teaching come about. for principles - see 3.5. 192 b we wonl try to talk about principles. Goes over the propramine as promitpated. some people think that present vrews ar: (of the cdear of externt a fanatics () outcome of Trench Hasfar A ontcane of 1917 Cmpayn Not ss; it is resuit of careful analysis of all field of experience. Object is to get a 1t class M. C. Senrce In other respects we now don't think Same as we did in June 1916 so also M. G. Tacties has underfore a Complete change since Apl 1917 & even in last few months.
knowledge io basehon out & others experence. chiefly lattel, - because on own trew is necessarily se limited. We are new in a position to collect a vast are of experence. Pleads for an open mind Lutpoin is Five tawer in Hax M6 merely a machine to prduce Fire Power Historical Strely shows that Organization & traties have always been based on pr- duction of mayun fire power even Stones, arrows, in & M.t can be waed to save men. the first lessat from Manchuris. The Geomans vapidly realized, the. See then writings even 10 o 12 yor ags. The Army which has the most M.G. will wrn. - But even they didn't frasp it Fally He began to collect date in 1915, largely by private enterposse; but now we get official reports from All Crps.
the sshool is also in good liasson with all front line Units Whole moden teaching is to assist the Infam try in the Offensive, it is the spict of all our maden teaching. M.Gs had comet been looked upon as a Defensive Weapon Highe Command used to give thes asa reason against icreases in MeG., as they are no food in the offension. Qnotes from P.S. 192 para 5 paget New thoughts came in since Arras & Kimp Both Bostish & French Rownes sut up. Then the French used it at Verdinn- with 140 M.G. over the Moroccan Dunsio () Result was magnificent It has been said that this Barrage Ide is New bright ider suddenly evolued. Not so at all.- We were taught indirect fre even before the war, as far buck as 1906 & 190- expenments on Salisderry Plain in 1909, in
indirect tree - ieely successful- accu racy on hiddentoget was most striking A report was made, but nothing was done; + an order came out that indirect five was not to be taght. Early in 1915anordercame out forbidding use of covering five over troops ven M.G. Coops had not been formed; you couldn't fet guns from Brs, not could you get education, because MrG siction officers soon got other commands .No thought on the subject frew up In June 1915 a M.G. Corps was proposel with a Bs in each Div. - But Companes were formed, & M.G Coops tormed in Olt But much opposition - passive & Active both here & in England. He hear of batteris of Ifis used to cave troops as early as early in 1916. It was increisingly used during the Somme & duare battler. - Canadians were pronies on Sep 15/1916 - with II Corpa then the Somme retreat - when Dut defantry
got away from the cover of and Artitlery, & M.G were increisingly used & puped to che out a week Astillery Carrage Then Arras - the first veal concentration 300 pens for Barrage & 200 in nouve The pessines - almost an exact copy on a bop saile - 750 ps, 500 t Barrage, 350 in reserve & - fiom onet 10,000, 000 rounds. Messmes also firt med the S.O.S. M.G Carrage - But on evening of Time] one N.G. barrage get down 5 minter before the Arty. & smished the countey attack, before Arty. started. New frequently used -ege ypar & has proved of tremendons, value. hens is an example of pooling, for benefit of Infantry sain principles:- Mhy must you poot resouce. - He have neither enough juns of men to do any thing else.- (Germans have 108 Leavy M.G. per Di 6
They are have 90 Companies a G.H.Q. trap & are kept out to be used at dange post At Cambran, 2 train loads of M Gs wer deteained & hell up our attack. He will always rush up these mobile reserver of M.Gs at threatened points He shall keep onr resouce plunl, & we shell try to increase our Army Battalian M. Grins are divided into Ferward & Read Grin Forward, - allotted to go forward with onfantry Real - for covering tre & b rereve two kinds of toward from of specifis tasks in Consolidati &to batterns of opportunity I dont engage small parties - not to fight, - but to consolidate.- Unless the is impersed, they will not be dug in & realy tor the set-piece Counterattack. (3) Battery of Opportunity - totally different wle is tofight, not to consolidate 11e. deal with massing &c& by direct fie
w ReacGuns - nvomally in froups of batteres frrp - a convenient collectinnof batteres Vattery - a convenient No of frm to make a Unit. Don't draw a distinct line between French & Open Warfare - there is no line - change may come overiight, or during one day. Sives an illetration at Cambran where pooling was not done, & a Brignde had t go to Bondon Hood tho a reserve of M. Gin. Certain special uses: (1 With a large number of M. Grms we can use the expedient of containing the enemy lightly - while using on Infantry chewhes. (3) to Keep open Flanks of paps O Harassing Fre Stratefical employment of M. Grns - say to cover a large movement to another. threatre. - M.G. fire power is ben then Yo the dead weight of Infantry fire power
M.G. Coops now exists, & starts out on life as a separate am; & reguies all help from all.- Second Lecture at 10.30 (Majo. Barry) Tables copiel from Blickboard Vickes & Lewis Kckes hewrs Discussion 600 R.T.M 700 R.P.M. FIRE (Mx- Kate mayimum vate PONEK 300 R.F.M. 300 R.P. M (actual) Actual Rel Hot after 800 keep on for hous with rounds rapid Wech oil & Water Heny Mounting Mounting None, of only a with fixed platform light Frpad Gu & Wate 4216 Neight 26 th Mobility ripod 48Us. Not difficult Easily done to reat- either in in position Went position but difficult or on the move in advance
AUS Vickers & Astillery Viskis Astillery Oiscussion Fixed Yes Ses Mounting Low & Hatter High Trajectory tong & Comparatively Range distant Short, max rau 3500 sfpective & accurate up to 2800 None Ser Destructive Power Fractically Very Observation always varely Marson necessary between Veckles from & toget OI wind Articlery (2) barometer (f themometer.
Fire & Beaten Lones Conest 2008 1500 1000 6564 134 / 20 15 75 $160 o 5 X 2500 23 60 I A

Lt Col Lindsay (9- 5a.m.)
How has present teaching come about?
For principles - see S.S. 192
therefore we won't try to talk about principles.
Goes over the programme as promulgated. -
Some people think that present views are: -
(1) the ideas of extremists or fanatics
(2) outcome of Trench Warfare
(3) outcome of 1917 campaign
Not so; it is result of careful analysis
of all field of experience.
Object is to get a 1st class M. G. Service
In other respects we now don't think
same as we did in 19 June 1916
So also M. G. Tactics has undergone a
complete change since Apl 1917 &
even in last few months. 

 

Knowledge is based on our & others' experiences -
chiefly latter, - because our own view is
necessarily so limited.  -
We are now in a position to collect a vast
area of experience. -
Pleads for an "open mind"
First point is Fire Power in War, -  M.G. is
merely a machine to produce Fire Power.
Historical Study shows that organization &
tactics have always been based on production 
of maximum fire power
even stones, arrows, &c &c
therefore M.G. can be used to save men.
We first learnt from Manchuria. - The
Germans rapidly realized this.   See
their writings - even 10 or 12 yrs ago.
"The Army which has the most M.G. will
win". - But even they didn't grasp it
fully.
We began to collect data in 1915, largely
by "private enterprise"; but now we
get official reports from All Corps.

 

The school is also in good liaison with all
front line Units.
Whole modern teaching is to assist the Infantry
in the Offensive;   it is the spirit of all
our modern teaching.  - M.G's had
come to be en looked upon as a Defensive Weapon
Higher Command used to give this as a
reason against increases in M.G., as
"they are no good in the offensive". -
Quotes from S.S. 192 para 5 page 6
New thoughts came in since Arras & Vimy
Both British & French Armies 'sat up'. -
Then the French used it at Verdun - with
140 M.G. over the Moroccan Division(!)
Result was magnificent.
It has been said that this Barrage Idea is
new bright idea' suddenly evolved.   Not
so at all.- We were taught indirect
fire even before the war, as far back as
1906 & 1907.
Experiments on Salisbury Plain in 1909, in

 

indirect fire - immensely successful- accuracy 
on hidden targets was most striking.
A report was made, but nothing was done;  &
an order came out that indirect fire was 
not to be taught.
Early in 1915 an order came out forbidding use
of covering fire over troops
[[Then/When?]], M.G. Corps had not been formed;  therefore
you couldn't get guns from Bns, nor
could you get education, because M.G
section officers soon got other commands.
Therefore no thought on the subject grew up.
In June 1915 an M.G. Corps was proposed
with a Bn in each Div. - But Companies
were formed, & M.G Corps formed in Oct.
But much opposition - passive & active
both here & in England. -
We hear of batteries of 8 guns used to cover
troops as early as early in 1916.   It
was increasingly used during the Somme
& Ancre battles, - Canadians were
pioneers on Sep 15/1916 - with II Corps.
Then the Somme retreat - when our Infantry

 

got away from the cover of our Artillery, & M.G's
were increasingly used & grouped to eke out
a weak Artillery barrage.
Then Arras - the first real concentration
200 guns for Barrage & 200 in reserve
The Messines - almost an exact copy on
a larger scale - 750 guns, 500 for
Barrage, 250 in reserve & - firing
over 10,000,000 rounds. -
Messines also first used the S.O.S. M.G
barrage. - But on evening of June 7
one M.G. barrage got down 5 minutes
before the Arty & smashed the counterattack,
before Arty started.
Now, frequently used - e.g. Ypres &
has proved of tremendous value.
Lens is an example of pooling, for
benefit of Infantry.
Certain principles:-
Why must you pool resources. - We have
neither enough guns or men to do anything 
else. - (Germans have 108
heavy M.G. per Div)

 

They also have 90 Companies as G.H.Q. troops
& are kept out to be used at danger point
At Cambrai, 2 train loads of M. G's
were detrained & held up our attack.
He will always rush up these mobile
reserves of M.G's at threatened points
Therefore we shall keep our resources fluid, & we
shall try to increase our Army Battalions
M. Guns are divided into 'Forward' & 'Rear' Guns.
Forward, - allotted to go forward with
Infantry
Rear - for covering fire & for reserves
Two kinds of Forward guns - (1) specific tasks in
consolidation & (2) batteries of opportunity
(1) don't engage small parties - not to
fight, - but to consolidate. - Unless
this is impressed, they will not be
dug in & ready for the set-piece
Counter-attack.
(2) Battery of Opportunity - totally different
- rôle is to fight, not to consolidate
i.e. deal with massing &c by
direct fire. 

 

Rear Guns - normally in groups of batteries
group = a convenient collection of batteries
battery = a convenient No of guns to make a
Unit.
Don't draw a distinct line between Trench &
Open Warfare - there is no line - change
may come overnight, or during one day.
Gives an illustration at Cambrai where pooling
was not done, & a Brigade had to go to Bourlon
Wood without a reserve of M. Gun. -
Certain special uses: -
(1) With a large number of M. Guns we can use
the expedient of containing the enemy
lightly - while using our Infantry elsewhere.
(2) To keep open flanks of gaps
(3) Harassing Fire.
Strategical employment of M. Guns - say
to cover a large movement to another.
theatre. - M.G. fire power is less than
¼ the dead weight of Infantry fire power.

 

M.G. Corps now exists, & starts out on life
as a separate arm;  & requires all help
from all.-
___________________________________________
Second Lecture at 10.30 (Major. Barry)
Tables copied from Blackboard:-

Vickers & Lewis

Discussion Lewis Vickers
FIRE
POWER
700 R.P.M.
Maximum rate
200 R.P.M. (actual)
Red Hot after 800
rounds rapid
600 R.P.M.
(Max. Rate)
300 R.P.M.
(actual)
Keep on for hours with
fresh oil & water
Mounting None, or only a
light tripod
Heavy Mounting
with fixed platform
 
Mobility Height 26 lbs. Gun & Water 42 lbs.
Tripod 48 lbs.
Concealment Easily done
either in
position
or on the move
Not difficult 
in position
but difficult
in advance.

 

Vickers & Artillery

Discussion Artillery Vickers
Fixed
Mounting
Yes Yes
Trajectory High Low & flatter
Range

Long &

distant

Comparatively
short, max range
3500x effective
& accurate up to
2800x
Destructive
Power
Yes None
Observation Practically
always
Very
rarely

Liaison necessary between Vickers guns &
Artillery - to get (1) wind
(2) barometer
(3) thermometer.

 


Cones of Fire & Beaten Zones
Diagram - see original document

 

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