General Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 17, 1 November 1917 - 13 January 1918, Part 13

Conflict:
First World War, 1914–18
Subject:
  • Documents and letters
Status:
Awaiting approval
Accession number:
RCDIG0000625
Difficulty:

Page 1 / 9

- SOUVENIR PPOGRAMME:-:-: :-:-:-:-: "The COO-EES' 3rd Australien Divisional Pierrots. ------------------------- Monday 3rd Docember 1917. 000000000 Concert in the prosence of:- Major-Genoral J. MOMAST. C.B. V.D. Commanding 3rd Australian Division. Brigadier-General W. Ramsay McHICOLL. D.S.0. Commanding 10th Australian Infantry Brigade. Lieut-Colouel J.E.C.LO-0. D.S.0. O.0. 40th Battalion. Lieut-Colonel R.0. HENDERSON. D.S.9. C.0. 39th Battalion. Tendered to officers, N.C.Os., and men comprising the liding Parties of the 39th and 40th Battalions. ..--- "passing Show" 39th B ttalion Bw Ovorture. "The Coo-ces." "Herry and Bright." Croning Chorus. Pte F.D.Jones. "I hear you ealling me" Solo. "I have a little garden. Pto V.Brahms. Tumorous Song. Pte A.Brown. "Arisona" Soloist Concerted. "Why make those cyes.' L/OpI F.J.WSSf3 Duet. end Pte F.D.J3 Ptes A.H.Catos "Bai Jovo." Hnorous Duet. and N.MeInnes. 7-- Cpl Hoy.wllliams. "The Angolus." Solo. L/Cpl F.J.Watsford "Maggie Eckenzie." Scottish Duo. and Pte G.Harvey. Humcrous Monoloque "Wisdom of Wonstar." Lieut.T.C.Lewis. 'Impressions of Daily Life" Ptes A.H.Gates Mumorous Sketch. and N.MeInnes. "Indian Intermezzo" 40th Battalion Band. Solection. "The Coo-ces." "Holiday-makers." Humorous Sketch. Pte Goc. Pearce. At the Piano. :--:C00 SAVE THE EINC. :-:-:-:--
Eothnds Blub Lugualm Dinsbn. 4th. December, 1917. n 3rd. Australian Division. During a recent conversation with the G. O. C. he was particularly interested in the various functions held by units. The attached report with Menu Card from 10th Australian Field Ambulance is forwarded for his information. S.241/1 Most COLONEL. A.D.M.S. 3rd. Australian Division.
THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION. Divisional Headquarters, 5th. December, 1917. Major-General J. MONASH, C.B., V.D., PRINCE'S HOTEL, Jermyn Street, Piccadilly, L O N D O N. My Dear General, I saw General WHITE today with reference to the shorthand notes which you sent me back yesterday. The following are the results of the interview. - (1), He will not hear of counter-offensive in any form. He says our letter was clever but we were deceiving ourselves. We are therefere cutting out any reference to counter-offensive but we will be prepared to put a decent sort of shoot into - operation in case things become intolerable. Our arguments rather beat him on this point of counter-offensive, and he got out of it very well by saying that there were los of arguments in favor of his views which were not worth while going through as Army had ordered no retaliation and so there must be none. In anything we do, there fore, we must be care- ful not to say "we fired in retaliation". (2). He says that we may fire up to our allotment of our ammunition, inclusive or exclusive of raids, according to our own liking. On the other hand we need not fire up to our allotment if we do not wish to, in order to carry out the spirit of General BIRDWOOD'S order. In weeks where we do not fire up to our allotment, we only have to put in a little statement saying that the full allotment was not fired owing to the fact that we did not wish to stir up the enemy while completing such and such a bit of work, or giving any other plausible reason. He said that we were quite right with reference to the Daylight Signal, that it had not been brought into force,
AU 2 5/12/1917. and that General GRIMWADE, therefore, could not be expected to know about it. While I am on the subject of Signals, I may as well let you know that yesterday's test was unsatisfactory on the whole, though the signals were seen from Artillery Group Observation Posts. The result is that the General Staff, C.R.A., Artill¬ ery Group Commanders and Brigades in the line, are taking special steps forthwith to correot things. It will probably end in our having a special line of lookouts. Personally I am not very anxious about the daylight part of it, except in cases of fog but I am anxious with regard to foggy nights. (3). As regards conveying orders to the Artillery direct, General WHITE was very nice about this and said that he quite saw your point of view and that he would see that it did not occur. I also told him that the Engineer's side wanted watch- ing too. He said General COXON was getting out an Artillery policy, and in the meanwhile we could base all our action on the Army policy which had been forwarded to us. He pointed out that he went down to see General GRIMWADE, with General COXON, not in an official capacity but merely to see how things went, and that General GRIMWADE was quite right in saying that he could not act with reference to the various points without submitting the whole matter to you. I felt it unwise, as things were going so well, to complain to him of the littlo criticisms from the CORPs Staff which, in our opinion, are unnecessary and hypercritical. I felt that we are broad enough minded to live through these pin-pricks. (4). I discussed with him the impossibility of having guns in position to do offensive as well as defensive. He quite agreed and saw that while it is possible to take guns forward for the offensive, if you have them forward and the enemy attacks it is not so easy to bring them back for the defensive, so our gun positions are to be suitable for defensive warfare, with oher vair positions reconnoitred and selected which we might occupy
3. 5/12/1917. in case we wanted to shoot further into enemy territory. (5). I was round the line with LAVARACK this morning, and as he has thoroughly got the hang of things now, I pro¬ pose pulling out tomorrow. Yours, as aye, slerg P.S. - I am giving General McNICOLL a copy of this note and putting one on the file for the General Staff, as it con- tains rather important decisions.
Pirst Aurhod Serpe. Bietäted. Sth December, 1917. 47 dear Menash, I am extremely sorry for failing to keep my appointment with you yesterday evening. I left my office,thinking I was only geing to be away for a short time,without warning them and in consequend of course they wers unable to tell you when I was likely to be back. I enly hope, I did ihat put you to any ineonvenience. I saw Jackson today and we discussed some of the matters which I think you had in mind. As regards retaliation, we are unable to bring our views into consonance.: My view is that retaliation is retaliation no matter what sweeter name may be agportioned to it/ of all this you and I will talk again and I daresay that we will find our views are not much at variance. I gathered from Jackson that yuu were a little afraid of policy being communicated through your R.A. without you first being made aware of it. Please do not think our methods are so irregular. I joined Coxen in a visit to Grimwade the other day for two or three reasons and so was able to explain to Grinwade some points of poliey which they were discussing and regarding which I said I would make the matter clear to you. This latter I hope to de in due coursé. Another matter which Jackson mentioned was whether guns were to be disposed for offence or defence. New I am geing to be slightly inconsistent. The guns will be disposed for dfence, but for all that we want to use them offensively and deny the initiative to the German. This also I will explain to you again. I had with me during my visit today the M.G.G.S. of the Army and have interested him about the Varley bomb. I shall hope to get something done in due course. Now put all these matters out of your head and get back and enjey to the full your holiday. P.T.0. V.D., Major-General J. MONASH, C.B., Core A.I.F. Administrative Headquarters, 130 Horseferry Road, Westminster, LONDON.
.2. We will watch everything here elesely for you and I am battling hard with II ANZAC to get back your scheol persennel. I have already defeated them completely over Harrison the gas efficer. Teus CRale
ORDER S P ECIAL Dy MLJOR - GEN IRAL JOUN MONASH, C.B..V.D. Commanding, Third Australiar Division. Divisional Haadquarters, 24th December, 1917.- The Divisiopel Commander wishes to coovoy to all Offioors, Jerrant and Non-Conmissioned Officers and non of tho Third Austral¬ ian Division, his warmost Christmas Groetiegs, and his earnest hope that the New Year will witness the achievement of Viotory to our Arms, and a happy return to cur homo-land. ROBERT E. JACKSON, Lieut-Colonel. A.A. & Q.M.G., Third Australian Division.
Bt1r. ORDER S P E C IA L Dy ELJOR - GENGRAL JOU MOTAST, C.B.,V.D. Commardiag, Third Australier Division. Divisional Haadquarters, 24th December, 1917.- The Divisiopel Commander wishes to coovoy to all Officors, Werrant and Non-Conmissioned Officers and non of tho Third Austral¬ ian Division, his warmest Christnas Groetiegs, and his earnest hope that the New Year will witness the achievement of Viotory to our Arms, and a happy returs to cur homo-lend. RODERT E. JACKSON, Lieut-Colonel. A.A. £ Q.M.G., Third Australian Division.

 

                        : - : - : - : - : SOUVENIR PROGRAMME. : - : - : - :- :
                                           : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - :

                                                 "The COO-EES"
                                    3rd Australian Divisional Pierrots.
                                                     --------------------
                                        Monday 3rd December 1917.

                                                         oooOOOooo
Concert in the presence of :-
                 Major-General J. MONASH. C.B. V.D.
                      Commanding 3rd Australian Division.


                 Brigadier-General W. Ramsay McNICOLL. D.S.O.
                       Commanding 10th Australian Infantry Brigade.


                 Lieut-Colonel J.E.C. LORD. D.S.O.
                      C.O. 40th Battalion.


                Lieut-Colonel R.O. HENDERSON. D.S.O.
                     C.O. 39th Battalion.
 

                Tendered to officers, N.C.Os., and men comprising the
[[?]]iding Parties of the 39th and 40th Battalions.
                                      -----------------------------

Overture.                  "passing Show"                39th Battalion Band.
Opening Chorus.    "Merry and Bright."         "The Coo-ees."
Solo.                            "I hear you calling me"   Pte F.D.Jones.
Humorous Song.     "I have a little garden."    Pte V.Brahms.
Concerted.                 "Arisona"    Soloist            Pte A.Brown.
Duet.                           "Why make those eyes."   L/CpI F.J.Watsford

                                                                                    and Pte F.D.Jo[[???]].
Humorous Duet.      "Bai Jove."                           Ptes A.H.Gates

                                                                                    and N.McInnes.

Solo                              "The Angelus."                   Cpl H.F.Williams.

Scottish Duo.             "Maggie McKenzie."         L/CpI F.J.Watsford

                                                                                     and Pte G.Harvey.

Humorous Monologue "Wisdom of Wonstar."  Lieut.F.G.Lewis.

Humorous Sketch.  "Impressions of Daily Life"  Ptes A.H.Gates

                                                                                      and N.McInnes.

Selection.                       "Indian Intermezzo"       40th Battalion Band.

Humorous Sketch.      "Holiday-makers."            "The Coo-ees.

                                                     At the Piano.          Pte Goc. Pearce.

 

                    : - : - : - : - : - : GOD SAVE THE KING. : - : - : - : - : - :

                                      : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - : - :
 

 

THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION.
 

                                                                                    HEADQUARTERS 
                                                                                       4th. December, 1917.
To
A.D.C.
3rd. Australian Division.
 

                        During a recent conversation with the G. O. C.
he was particularly interested in the various functions held
by units.
 

                        The attached report with Menu Card from 10th
Australian Field Ambulance is forwarded for his information.
 

[*See 26/11/17*]
                                        [[signature ?Malcolm T White]]       COLONEL.
                                            A.D.M.S. 3rd. Australian Division.
ATW/RWB
 

 

                                    THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION.
                                                                     Divisional Headquarters,
                                                                             5th. December, 1917.
 

Major-General J. MONASH, C.B., V.D.,
                 PRINCE'S HOTEL,
                         Jermyn Street,
                             Piccadilly,
                                   LONDON.
 

My Dear General,
      

           I saw General WHITE today with reference to the shorthand
notes which you sent me back yesterday.  The following are the
results of the interview. -
 

           (1).  He will not hear of counter-offensive in any form.
He says our letter was clever but we were deceiving ourselves.
We are therefore cutting out any reference to counter-offensive
but we will be prepared to put a decent sort of shoot into -
operation in case things become intolerable.  Our arguments
rather beat him on this point of counter-offensive, and he
got out of it very well by saying that there were lots of
arguments in favor of his views which were not worth while
going through as Army had ordered no retaliation and so there
must be none.  In anything we do, therefore, we must be care-

ful not to say "we fired in retaliation".
           (2).  He says that we may fire up to our allotment of our
ammunition, inclusive or exclusive of raids, according to our
own liking.  On the other hand we need not fire up to our
allotment if we do not wish to, in order to carry out the
spirit of General BIRDWOOD'S order.  In weeks where we do
not fire up to our allotment, we only have to put in a little
statement saying that the full allotment was not fired owing
to the fact that we did not wish to stir up the enemy while
completing such and such a bit of work, or giving any other
plausible reason.
           He said that we were quite right with reference to the
Daylight Signals, that it had not been brought into force,
 

 

                                                   - 2 -                                             5/12/1917.
 

and that General GRIMWADE, therefore, could not be expected to
know about it.
          While I am on the subject of Signals, I may as well let
you know that yesterday's test was unsatisfactory on the whole,
though the signals were seen from Artillery Group Observation
Posts.  The result is that the General Staff, C.R.A., Artill-

ery Group Commanders and Brigades in the line, are taking special
steps forthwith to correct things.  It will probably end in our
having a special line of lookouts.  Personally I am not very
anxious about the daylight part of it, except in cases of fog
but I am anxious with regard to foggy nights.
         (3). As regards conveying orders to the Artillery direct,
General WHITE was very nice about this and said that he quite
saw your point of view and that he would see that it did not
occur.  I also told him that the Engineer's side wanted watch-

ing too.  He said General COXON was getting out an Artillery
policy, and in the meanwhile we could base all our action on
the Army policy which had been forwarded to us.  He pointed
out that he went down to see General GRIMWADE, with General
COXON, not in an official capacity but merely to see how things
went, and that General GRIMWADE was quite right in saying that
he could not act with reference to the various points without
submitting the whole matter to you.  I felt it unwise, as
things were going so well, to complain to him of the little
criticisms from the CORPS Staff which, in our opinion, are
unnecessary and hypercritical.  I felt that we are broad enough
minded to live through these pin-pricks.
              (4).  I discussed with him the impossibility of having guns
in position to do offensive as well as defensive.  He quite
agreed and saw that while it is possible to take guns forward
for the offensive, if you have them forward and the enemy attacks
it is not so easy to bring them back for the defensive, so our
gun positions are to be suitable for defensive warfare, with other
their positions reconnoitred and selected which we might occupy
 

 

                                                     - 3 -                                          5/12/1917.
 

in case we wanted to shoot further into enemy territory.
         (5).  I was round the line with LAVARACK this morning,
and as he has thoroughly got the hang of things now, I pro-

pose pulling out tomorrow.
                                                    Yours, as aye,
                                                      G. H. Jackson
 

P.S. -  I am giving General McNICOLL a copy of this note
and putting one on the file for the General Staff, as it con-

tains rather important decisions.
 

 

Dictated.                                                           First ANZAC Corps,
                                                                                      5th December, 1917.
 

My dear Monash,
                         I am extremely sorry for failing to keep my appointment
with you yesterday evening.  I left my office, thinking I was only
going to be away for a short time, without warning them and in consequence
of course they were unable to tell you when I was likely to be back.
I only hope, I did not put you to any inconvenience.
                          I saw Jackson today and we discussed some of the matters
which I think you had in mind.  As regards retaliation, we are unable
to bring our views into consonance!!  My view is that retaliation is
retaliation no matter what sweeter name may be apportioned to it!  Of
all this you and I will talk again and I daresay that we will find our
views are not much at variance.
                           I gathered from Jackson that you were a little afraid of
policy being communicated through your R.A. without you first being
made aware of it.  Please do not think our methods are so irregular.
I joined Coxen in a visit to Grimwade the other day for two or three
reasons and so was able to explain to Grimwade some points of policy
which they were discussing and regarding which I said I would make the
matter clear to you.  This latter I hope to de in due course.
                             Another matter which Jackson mentioned was whether guns
were to be disposed for offence or defence.  Now I am going to be
slightly inconsistent.  The guns will be disposed for defence, but for
all that we want to use them offensively and deny the initiative to the
German.  This also I will explain to you again.
                           I had with me during my visit today the M.G.G.S. of the
Army and have interested him about the Varley bomb.  I shall hope to
get something done in due course.
                                Now put all these matters out of your head and get back
and enjoy to the full your holiday.
 

                                                                                                                  P.T.0.
Major-General J. MONASH, C.B., V.D.,
            Core A.I.F. Administrative Headquarters,
                          130 Horseferry Road,
                                  Westminster,
                                                 LONDON.
 

 

                                                         - 2 -
 

        We will watch everything here closely for you and I am
battling hard with II ANZAC to get back your school personnel.
I have already defeated them completely over Harrison the gas
officer.
                                                                            Yours
                                                                                   CBB[[White?]]
 

 

                                              SPECIAL ORDER

                                                            By
                              MAJOR - GENERAL JOHN MONASH, C.B., V.D.
                              Commanding, Third Australian Division.
 

                                                                              Divisional Headquarters,
                                                                                     24th December, 1917.-
 

                     The Divisional Commander wishes to convey to all Officers,
Warrant and Non-Commissioned Officers and men of the Third Austral-

ian Division, his warmest Christmas Groetings, and his earnest hope
that the New Year will witness the achievement of Victory to our
Arms, and a happy return to our home-land.
 

                                                           ROBERT E. JACKSON, Lieut-Colonel.
                                                  A.A. & Q.M.G., Third Australian Division.
 

 

                                                                                                                              24/12/17
                                            SPECIAL ORDER

                                                          By
                                       MAJOR - GENERAL JOHN MONASH, C.B., V.D.
                                       Commanding, Third Australian Division.
 

                                                                                      Divisional Headquarters,
                                                                                            24th December, 1917.-
 

                                   The Divisional Commander wishes to convoy to all Officers,
Warrant and Non-Commissioned Officers and men of the Third Austral-

ian Division, his warmest Christmas Groetings, and his earnest hope
that the New Year will witness the achievement of Victory to our
Arms, and a happy return to cur home-land.
 

 

                                                                            RODERT E. JACKSON, Lieut-Colonel.
                                                               A.A. & Q.M.G., Third Australian Division.
 

 
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