Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 16, 9 October - 31 October 1917, Part 11

THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION.
Divisional Headquarters,
14th. October, 1917.
Major-General J. Monash, C.B., V.D.
Commanding Third Australian Division.
With reference to attached correspondence, I have again
seen Lieutenant WEDD (also other officers who had these men in their
sections), and he has told me that, as soon as these men joined the
Company, they were put through the standard tests of Elementary
Training, and not one of the men passed all of the tests.
As soon
as I arrived in FRANCE with the Company, I also had these men tested with practically the same results. I then had them put on
very elementary work, and I personally used to ask them questions
as to what they did whilst at GRANTHAM.
Some told me that they did a good deal of marching, and
others that they did a lot of fatigue duty and guard duty.
They
only had a very hazy knowledge of firing, and some appeared
to have been on the range once; others twice.
Some did not know how many
points they had obtained and did not even know how many points they
had to obtain to qualify as a gunner.
As regards Major SEXTON saying that I expressed the
opinion that the Machine Gun Training was good, there seems to have
been some mistake about this, because, for the whole time that I
commanded the 9th. Machine Gun Company, I do not remember receiving
any Machine Gunners from GRANTHAM. We always had to get men from
the Brigade and these men we trained ourselves. I pointed this
fact out to Major SEXTON whilst I was in ENGLAND. If these men
were qualified on leaving GRANTHAM, no records accompanied them
showing whether they were lst class gunners or only qualified.
I consider that one method of improving the individual
training of our Machine Gunners is that only officers and N.C.O.'s
who are qualified to instruct should be sent to the Training Depot.
At present, I understand that as soon as an officer or N.C.0.
arrives Home for a tour of duty he is sent to do a course lasting
6 or 8 weeks, therefore this means that there is not the number of
Instructors available that there should be vide establishment of
the Machine Gun Training Depot.
One case I would like to point out : An officer
recently left this Division after having trained a section for 7 or
8 months prior to proceeding Overseas, and since then commanded
the section in a most able and efficient manner for 9 months on
active service. With the experience that this officer had, I
certainly consider that he would be better employed licking
recruits into shape than doing six weeks at a school of instruction.
J.M. [[?]]
Major.-
D.M.G.O. - Third Australian Division.
 

14/10/17
NOTES FROM 10TH BRIGADE
37th BATTALION. 427 went over.
290 estimated casualties, including 11
Officers casualties (1 Officer killed).
No Company Commanders Killed.
Battalion was hung up by pill box near
MEETCHEELE.
38th BATTALION. 600 went over (including 1 Company of
39th Battalion).
Unable to estimate casualties.
No Company Commanders lost.
Got past red line.
150 yards each side of River impassable.
39th BATTALION. 450 went over.
250 estimated casualties.
Lost between 30 & 40 during approach march.
1 Company Commander killed (SOUTHBY).
Stated that Captain GIBLIN was in PASS-
CHENDAELE with party.
40th BATTALION. 450 went over.
Estimated casualties not available.
Casualties slight during approach march.
2 Company Commanders wounded. One
sent back owing to break down.
Forward men got through AUGUSTUS WOOD.
Machine guns from Dab Trench caused many
casualties.
All wounded believed to be in.
(CAP/PL). 14-10-17. [[?]] Pyke. Captain.
D.A.A.G., Third Australian Division.
 

N^o G40/78
PERSONAL.
THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION.
Divisional Headquarters,
l6th. October, 1917.
Major-General The Hon. J.W.McCay, C.B., V.D.
Commanding A.I.F. Depots in United Kingdom.
My dear McCay,
I have been prevented from writing to you in reply
to your recent letters, because of the fact that since September
29th. I have been engaged in continually ^in moving the Division
forward from a back area into the battle zone, and carrying out a
succession of offensive operations all of which achieved complete
and brilliant success except the last, in which the weather beat
us, and enabled us to complete only about one third of the
objectives set. -
I have to acknowledge with thanks your letters dated
September 24th. and October 1st. and Brigadier-General FOOTT's
letter of October 4th, all arising out of my letter to you of
September 20th. with reference to the training of some 25 men, who
came over with the 23rd. Machine Gun Coy. -
(1).
 

16/10/1917.
(2).
I am afraid I have unintentionally put you to a great
deal of trouble over this matter. - I naturally took the reports
of Lieutenant WEDD and Major WELLS at their face value, and
considered that, without making them the occasion for an official
complaint, I ought at least to communicate the terms of these
reports to you privately. -
From what you have since explained to me, I learn what
I did not know before that the whole question of the training of
the Australian Machine Gunners has been under your close supervision,
and now knowing I have no apprehensions as to the future.-
On the particular question as to the 25 men in respect
of whom the first reports were made, I asked Major WELLS some days
ago to make a more precise statement as to the defects in their
training, and he writes me as follows :-
"I have again seen Lieutenant WEDD (also other
officers who had these men in their sections) and he has
told me that, as soon as these men joined the Coy., they
were put through the standard tests of elementary training,
and not one of the men passed all of the tests. - As soon
as I arrived in FRANCE with the Coy., I also had these men
tested with practically the same results. - I then had
them put on very elementary work, and I personally used to
ask them questions as to what they did whilst at GRANTHAM. -
Some told me that they did a good deal of marching, and
others that they did a lot of fatigue duty and guard duty. -
They only had a very hazy knowledge of firing, and some
appeared to have been on the range once, others twice. -
Some did not know how many points they had obtained, and
did not even know how many points they had to obtain to
qualify as a gunner."
 

16/10/1917.
(3).
Unfortunately, Lieutenant WEDD was killed on Octover
12th., and I cannot, therefore, pursue further the statements
attributed to him.
In view of the private information which you gave me in
your letter of October 1st, and the hint that there might not be
very good feeling between WELLS and SEXTON, I am now rather inclined
to regard WELLS' report as exaggerated and too sweeping. - The
terms which he has used in his latest report are, as you perceive,
not very specific, and do not bear out his first report that these
men are "in no way efficient as Machine Gunners". - I do not think
I should waste your time or my own in closer investigation of the
issue as to whether WELLS and WEDD were right in their judgment or
not. - I have already expressed to you in a former letter my
view that I am in no way disposed to make complaints about the
training in the Depots; even if on some occasions slight causes of
complaint might be found to exist.-
I would be pleased, therefore, if you would regard the
matter as now closed, so far as I am concerned, and if you will
accept my thanks for the trouble you have taken in the matter. -
With kind regards,
Yours very sincerely,
(Signed) John Monash