Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 15, 10 May - 9 June 1917, Part 5

Conflict:
First World War, 1914–18
Part of Quest:
Sir John Monash (General, b.1865 - d.1931)
Subject:
  • Documents and letters
Status:
Open to contributions
Accession number:
RCDIG0000620
Difficulty:

Page 1 / 9

AU S2iLiEg -SECRET, AKeEig/2Zà ..3.O. 17-5-17. NOTES FROM CONFERENCE HELD AT CORPS HEADQUARTERS ON 16-5- --------------- 1. 9th. Corps are to come right on; therefore O.K. for 25th. Division. 2. GREEN LINE equals BLACK dotted line. - BLACK AND BLUE lines one and the same for us and for New Zealand Division. - Call them BLUE - BLACK. 3. Gaps in wire, oWL and ODESSY line, to be cut with aeroplane observation previous to "Z" day, and further done when observation from BLUE-BLACK line is obtained. Troops to go on from BLACK line as soon as possible seeing that the essence of success is rapidity. 5. Heavy barrage of all guns on OWL-ODESSY line as soon as BLACK line gained. - OWL-ODESSY line equals GREEN line. 9th. Corps will reach GREEN line at plus 4.10, i.e., plus 250 minutes. We reach BLACK line at 3.10, i.e. 130. Battalions will have to start at a fixed time to get to GREEN line. QUERY: - Is there to be any latitude? NOTE:- We only get half an hour's protective barrage during halt on BLACK line, which is the line we want to con- solidate on, while we waste lots of valuable time hang- ing about on other lines. This presumably is unavoid- able. 7. Parties with Lewis and Machine Guns go with the Tanks to capture the GREEN line. Bayonet men to go for the gun teams. 8. BLACK line for the Corps is from o.28.b.5.2. to the River LYs.. 9. Masked guns of the Reserve Corps to be used to help eapture the MESSINES RIDGE, and after that, to help capture the GREEN line. 10. 9th. Corps reach LUMMX FARM at 4.10, i.e., plus 250 minutes. 11. Page 3 of Provisional Plan of Attack. - 'Halt on BLACK line until plus 3.40 for Tanks to close up', to be amended. Time of halt not to be stated. We are to go forward earlier, if opportunity offers. 12. Page 4 of Provisional Plan. - Instead of the advance to the GREEN line starting at 3.40, it should start not later than 3.40 any time after 2.40. QUESTION WEHAVE TO ANSWER TO CORPS. Indicate what modifications necessitated by the new scheme. G.S.o. I to send in our new plan to Corps, both Infantry and Artillery. P.T.o.
(2). 13. 25th. Division intend to hold their troops for the GREEN line for three-quarters of an hour after Zero before starting them off. Corps, on the other hand, say must keep close up and keep going. - Advantage of Corps idea is you are sure of getting started. Advantage of 25th. Division idea is you keep your troops out of the barrage and fairly happy until launched; you are able to reconnoitre for gaps in the barrage, and to decide how to move over bad bits, i.e., shell swept zones, and you don't have a lot of men hanging about in shell holes for a long time waiting for their turn. 14. It was ruled that all references should be to minutes, not to hours and minutes. 15. New Zealanders said they would leave the SCHNITZEL line at 118. This they have altered since to plus 113. 16. New Zealanders intend to put one more Battalion in to get the HACK line, and two Battalions to go for the GREEN line. 17. They are to go for the GREEN line whether Tanks are up or not. If Tanks and Infantry fail, then the Corps Cavalry are to go for the GREEN line. 18. A separate party of New Zealanders is to co-operate with the Tanks. 19. 8 Tanks will go for MESSINES. 20. Plus 160 is the earliest Tanks can reach BLACK line. 21. Guns not to be destroyed unless we are obliged to. Apparently no reason for this decision, as a broken captured gun appears in the report as a gun taken and constitutes an equally good War Trophy. - The risk in not destroying them is considerable, as after their local stock of ammunition has been used up, we do not propose to employ them further. It will certainly be necessary for General MeNICOLL to destroy his lot of hostile guns. 22. The organization of the party to go for the battery near STEIGNAST FARM, and the arrangements with regard to Artillery help, have not yet been considered. - We must find out definitely beforehand whether the battery is still supposed to be there. 23. If the barrage leaves the BLACK line at plus 160 and does not leave the front GREEN line until plus 240., it will either have to move very slowly in certain places or there will be long halts. The pace of the creep of this barrage was not discussed. Roughly there is an average of 800 yards to go - 800 yards in 80 Looked at in this light it minutes, or 10 minutes per 100 yards. opens possibilities. 24. Corps Commander stated best range for 18-prs. is 7,000 yards. 25. G.s.o. I to warn l0th. Brigade re alteration in Left boundary, i.e., along HUNS WALK, and not being responsible for any portion of OWL SUPPORT. 26. 25th. Division troops to go on at the rate of 50 yards a minute from the BLACK line under the barrage towards the GREEN line. What will New Zealanders do? 27. Heavy Artillery to lift straight from the BLACK line to the GREEN line, the remainder creep.. have 28. No intention to/organizedattack from BLACK to GREEN line. How the GREEN line is to be taken, if it is held, not quite clear. P.T.0.
(3). 29. Artillery to lift off front GREEN line at plus 240., off the Eastern GREEN line at plus 246., settle down 150 yards beyond till plus 2735, and then lift 300 yards beyond furthest GREEN line, and remain, gradually slowing down. 3o. G.S.o. I to work out with B.M.R.A. how "S.O.S" rockets are to be seen from GREEN line and got back to batteries, in case F.o.os communications do not hold. 31. One regiment of Corps Cavalry at WULVERCHEM to advance by BRISTOL CASTLE and BoYLE'S FARM to BIRTHDAY FARM. One squadron goes on with the reserve of 25th. Division assaulting troops to GREEN line. - Squadrons own Cyclists make their track. Another squadron to be on the 3rd. Division Right flank, and go for WARNETON. QUERY: - Where will they assemble and whose orders will they be under? When will the start for WARNETON be made? 32. The New Zealanders are to have no mounted troops. 33. All possible raids are to be carried out between now and "Z" day. Essential to keep the Boche in his front trenches, or to find out definitely if he is not there. 3rd. Australian Division to get a raid in in the next two or three days. Artillery not being available, it will have to be silent. 34. Everyone to take advantage of good weather for wire cutting. 35. Days from "Z" to "U" will be lettered. - -T"' day will not be lettered, but will be called "Z" minus 6. Z" minus 7 etc. Days prior to "T" will be called "Z" plus 1 day will be known as "A". "Z" plus 2 days "B". Days after "C" day will be known as "o"."" plus 4 "Z" plus 3 days "Z" plus 5, etc. Zero plus 1 equals 1 hour alter Zero.hour. Zero minus 1 equals 1 hour prior to Zero hour. All the assistance possible to be given to Heavy Artillery 36. personnel, who have had a hard time. 37. Corps Commander suggests men from MORBECQUE should be earmarked and put on to the heavy work now. 38. Divisional Commanders were asked when they wanted to get into their offensive Areas. - 3rd. Division said one week prior to "Z" day. - Corps Commander said by the 28th., but altered directly after and said final decision will be given out later. The ruling was we were to have offensive Area at least one week before "Z" day. 39. Immobile wagon lines were to be got going at once. 40. Numbers of Machine Guns available, as read out by Corps Command- er. 64. .... 25th. Division, 64. 3rd. Aust. Division... Total 246. 64. . .. N.Z. Division. 48. Reserve Division. .... 6. Motor M. G. Company. do- 41. Our plan is apparently clear and we need not worry with the foregoing. Oo- 36 to be available to go forward with attacking Brigades. P.T.0.
A0 (4). 42. Corps Commander ruled everyone was to come back at once from Corps Schools. 42. Divisions to give definite statement with reference to numbers of officers, N.C.o's and men to go to MORBECQUE. Balance can be used by Divisions. In the numbers for MORBECg UE we are allowed to count in the numbers away at Schools. G. II to get right on with this.
THIRD AUSTRALLAN DIVISION, Divisional Headquarters, 20/5/17. Lieut-Colonel Lamb, O.C. "E"(3) Croup A.I.F. Depots In U.K., SALISBURY PLAIN. My dear Lamb, On turning over in my mind the future of the 3rd Division Training Group, I believe I am right in the supposition that this Training Group has, at present, no bands. - It would be a very nice thing if each of the Training Battalions could have a band of its own. This would help to entertain the men, and would also greatly improve training in marching and so on. I am quite aware that it requires an effort to raise funds for, and to purchase, band instruments, but I am writing to ask your views as to how this can best be done. - Naturally, Units in the field are not over anxious to part with their Comforts' Funds in the interests of distant Training Battalions, so it would be much better if the money could be raised by your troops them¬ selves. - Assuming that the instruments for the three bands would cost say £400, this would amount to about 2/- per head on your present strength, or say a subscription of 6d. per head for each of 4 successive weaks. - Possibly, the personnel now with the Training Battalions would be prepared to subscribe the whole amount required. If this provei impossible, I think I could answer for something like £150 from this Division (say 250 from each of the three front line Brigades), provided that you could see your way to raise the balance. - Will you kindly let me know what you think about the whole proposal, and what you think could be done to achieve the end aimed at. With kind regards, yours sincerely,
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20/5/a7. MOVEMENTS of 11th BRIGADE BATTALIONS. "A" in PONT DE NIEPPE Up to daylight on May 24th 1243 "B" & "C" ARMENTIERES "D" in WATERLANDs (No.1) a4 in PONT DE NIEPPE From daylight May 24th To Band C in LE TOUQUET Sector June 2nd. in WATERLANDS. A in ST YVES Sector (offensive front) From June 2nd to W/X night in CATACOMBS B and C in PONT DE NIEPPE or ARMENTIERES. in ST YVES Sector On X/Y night in CATACOMBS in PONT DE NIEPPE move up to near PLOEGSTEERT WOOD. in ST XVES Sector On I/Z night in Left Reserve Station 5 42 C in Right Reserve Station A B move up to BUNHILL ROW. in CATACOMBS After Zero B.C.D, aa may be ordered.

S E C R E T.

Stamp

HEADQUARTERS

G1/238/27

THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION

G.O.C    17-5-17

NOTES FROM CONFERENCE HELD AT CORPS HEADQUARTERS ON 

16-5-17

                                                 ------------------

  1. 9TH Corps are to come right on, therefore O.K. for 25th

 Division

 2. GREEN LINE equals BLACK dotted line. - BLACK AND BLUE lines

one and the same for us and for New Zealand Division. - Call

them BLUE-BLACK.

 3. Gaps in wire, OWL and ODESSY line, to be cut with aeroplane

observation previous to "Z" day, and further down when observation

from BLUE-BLACK line is obtained.

 4. Troops to go on from BLACK line as soon as possible seeing

that the essence of success is rapidity.

 5. Heavy barrage of all guns on OWL-ODESSY line as soon as BLACK

line gained.- OWL-ODESSY line equals GREEN line.

 6. 9th. Corps will reach GREEN line at plus 4.10, i.e., plus

250 minutes.

We reach BLACK line at 2.10, i.e. 130.-

Battalion will have to start at a fixed time to get the GREEN

line.-

QUERY: -  is there to be any latitude?

NOTE: - We only get half an hour's protective barrage during

halt on BLACK line, which is the line we want to consolidate on,

while we waste lots of valuable time hanging 

about on other lines. This presumably is unavoidable.

 7.  Parties with Lewis and Machine Guns go with the Tanks to

capture the GREEN line.

Bayonet men to go for the gun teams.

 8. BLACK line for the Corps is from C.28.b.5.2. to the River

[[?]].

 9. Masked guns of the Reserve Corps to be used to help capture

the MESSINES RIDGE, and after that, to help capture the GREEN

line

 10. 9th. Corps reach LUMM FARM at 4.10, i.e. plus 250 minutes.

 11. Page 3 of Provisional Plan of Attack. - 'Halt on BLACK line

until plus 3.40 for Tanks to close up', to be amended. -

Time of halt not to be stated.-

We are to go forward earlier, if opportunity offers.

 12. Page 4 of Provisional Plan. - Instead of the advance to the

GREEN line starting at 3.40, it should start not later than 3.40 -

any time after 2.40.

QUESTION WE HAVE TO ANSWER TO CORPS

Indicate what modifications necessitated by the new scheme. -

G.S.O. I to send in our new plan to Corps, both infantry and

Artillery.

P.T.O.

 

 

 

 

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