Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 15, 10 May - 9 June 1917, Part 5

SECRET.

HEADQUARTERS

No. G1/238/273

THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION

G.O.C    17-5-17

NOTES FROM CONFERENCE HELD AT CORPS HEADQUARTERS ON 16-5-17.

1. 9th Corps are to come right on, therefore O.K. for 25th.

 Division.

2. GREEN LINE equals BLACK dotted line. - BLACK AND BLUE lines

one and the same for us and for New Zealand Division. - Call

them BLUE-BLACK.

3. Gaps in wire, OWL and ODESSY line, to be cut with aeroplane

observation previous to "Z" day, and further done when observation

from BLUE-BLACK line is obtained.

4. Troops to go on from BLACK line as soon as possible seeing

that the essence of success is rapidity.

 5. Heavy barrage of all guns on OWL-ODESSY line as soon as BLACK

line gained.-

OWL-ODESSY line equals GREEN line.

6. 9th. Corps will reach GREEN line at plus 4.10, i.e., plus

250 minutes.

We reach BLACK line at 2.10, i.e. 130.-

Battalion will have to start at a fixed time to get the GREEN

line.-

QUERY: -  is there to be any latitude?

NOTE: - We only get half an hour's protective barrage during

halt on BLACK line, which is the line we want to consolidate 

on,while we waste lots of valuable time hanging 

about on other lines. This presumably is unavoidable.

7.  Parties with Lewis and Machine Guns go with the Tanks to

capture the GREEN line.

Bayonet men to go for the gun teams.

8. BLACK line for the Corps is from C.28.b.5.2. to the River

Elysee.

9. Masked guns of the Reserve Corps to be used to help capture

the MESSINES RIDGE, and after that, to help capture the GREEN

line.

10. 9th. Corps reach LUMM FARM at 4.10, i.e., plus 250 minutes.

11. Page 3 of Provisional Plan of Attack. - 'Halt on BLACK line

until plus 3.40 for Tanks to close up', to be amended. -

Time of halt not to be stated.-

We are to go forward earlier, if opportunity offers.

12. Page 4 of Provisional Plan. - Instead of the advance to the

GREEN line starting at 3.40, it should start not later than 3.40 -

any time after 2.40.

QUESTION WE HAVE TO ANSWER TO CORPS

Indicate what modifications necessitated by the new scheme. -

G.S.O. I to send in our new plan to Corps, both infantry and

Artillery.

P.T.O.

(2).

13. 25th Division intend to hold their troops for the GREEN line

for three-quarters of an hour after Zero before starting them off.

Corps on the other hand, say must keep close up and keep

going. -

Advantage of Corps idea is you are sure of getting started. -

Advantage of 25th. Division idea is you keep your troops out

of the barrage and fairly happy until launched; you are able to

reconnoitre for gaps in the barrage, and to decide how to move over

bad bits, i.e. , shell swept zones, and you don't have a lot of men

hanging about in shell holes for a long time waiting for their turn.

14. It was ruled that all references should be to minutes, not to

hours and minutes.

15. New Zealanders said they would leave the SCHINTZEL line at 118.

This they have altered since to plus 113.

16. New Zealanders intend to put one more Battalion in to get the

BLACK line, and two Battalions to go for the GREEN line.

17. They are to go for the GREEN line whether Tanks are up or not.

If Tanks and Infantry fail, then the Corps Cavalry are to go for the

GREEN line.

18. A separate party of New Zealanders is to co-operate with the

Tanks.

19. 8 Tanks will go for MESSINES.

20. Plus 160 is the earliest Tanks can reach BLACK line.

21. Guns not to be destroyed unless we are obliged to. -

Apparently no reason for this decision, as a broken captured

gun appears in the report as a gun taken and constitutes an equally

good War Trophy. - The risk in not destroying them is considerable,

as after their local stock of ammunition has been used up, we do

not propose to employ them further.-

It will certainly be necessary for General McNICOLL to destroy

his lot of hostile guns.

22. The organization of the party to go for the battery near

STEIGNAST FARM, and the arrangements with regard to Artillery help,

have not yet been considered. -

We must find out definitely beforehand whether the battery is

still supposed to be there.

23. If the barrage leaves the BLACK line at plus 160 and does not

leave the front GREEN line plus 240., it will either have to

move very slowly in certain places or there will be long halts.-

The pace of the creep of this barrage was not discussed. -

Roughly there is an average of 800 yards to go - 800 yards in 80

minutes, or 10 minutes per 100 yards. Looked at in this light it

opens possibilities.

24. Corps Commander stated best range for 18-prs. is 7,000 yards.

25. G.S.O. I to warn 10th. Brigade re alteration in Left boundary,

i.e., along HUNS WALK, and not being responsible for any portion of

OWL SUPPORT.

26. 25th. Division troops to go on at the rate of 50 yards a

minute from the BLACK line under the barrage towards the GREEN line.

What will New Zealanders do?

27. Heavy Artillery to lift straight from the BLACK line to the

GREEN line, the remainder creep..

28. No intention to ^have organized attack from BLACK to GREEN line.

How the GREEN line is to be taken, if it is held, not quite clear.

P.T.O.

(3).

29. Artillery to lift off front GREEN line at plus 240., off the

Eastern GREEN line at plus 245., settle down 150 yards beyond till

plus 275., and then lift 300 yards beyond furthest GREEN line, and

remain, gradually slowing down.

30. G.S.O. I to work out with B.M.R.A. how "S.O.S" rockets are to

be seen from GREEN line and got back to batteries, in case F.O.Os

communications do not hold.

31. One regiment of Corps Cavalry at WULVERGHEM to advance by

BRISTOL CASTLE and BOYLE'S FARM to BIRTHDAY FARM.-

One squadron goes on with the reserve of 25th. Division

assaulting troops to GREEN line.- Squadrons own Cyclists make

their track.

Another squadron to be on the 3rd. Division Right flank, and

go for WARNETON.

QUERY: - Where will they assemble and whose orders will they be

under?

When will the start for WARNETON be made?

32. The New Zealanders are to have no mounted troops.

33. All possible raids are to be carried out between now and "Z"

day. –

Essential to keep the Boche in his front trenches, or to find

out definitely if he is not there. -

3rd. Australian Division to get a raid in in the next two or

three days. Artillery not being available, it will have to be

silent.

34. Everyone to take advantage of good weather for wire cutting.

35. Days from "Z" to "U" will be lettered. - "T" day will not be

lettered, but will be called "Z" minus 6.

Days prior to "T" will be called "Z" minus 7 etc.

"Z" plus 1 day will be known as "A".

"Z" plus 2 days "B".) 

"Z" plus 3 days "C".) Days after "C" day will be known as "Z" plus 4, "Z" plus 5, etc.

Zero plus 1 equals 1 hour after zero. hour.

Zero minus 1 equals 1 hour prior to Zero hour.

36. All the assistance possible to be given to Heavy Artillery

personnel, who have had a hard time.

37. Corps Commander suggests men from MORBECQUE should be earmarked 

and put on to the heavy work now.

38. Divisional Commanders were asked when they wanted to get into

their Offensive Areas. - 3rd. Divisional said one week prior to "Z"

day. - Corps Commander said by the 28th., but altered directly after

and said final decision will be given out later. -

The ruling was we were to have Offensive Area at least one week

before "Z" day.

39. Immobile wagon lines were to be got going at once.

40. Numbers of Machine Guns available, as read out by Corps Commanders.-

25th. Division,  . . . .              64.)

3rd. Aust. Division . .           64.)

N.Z. Division.      . . .              64.)   Total 246.

Reserve Division . . . .          48.)

Motor M.G. Company. .         6.)

@@-

41. Our plan is apparently clear and we need not worry with the

foregoing.

@@- 36 to be available to go forward with attacking Brigades.

P.T.O.

(4).

42. Corps Commander ruled everyone was to come back at once from

Corps Schools.

42. Division to give definite statement with reference to numbers

of Officers, N.C.O.'s and men to go to MORBECQUE. Balance can be used

by Divisions. -

In the numbers for MORBECQUE we are allowed to count in the

numbers away at Schools.

G. II to get right on with this.

THIRD AUSTRALIAN DIVISION,

Divisional Headquarters,

20/5/17.

Lieut-Colonel Lamb,

O.C. "E" (3) Group,

A.I.F. Depots In U.K.,

SALISBURY PLAIN.

My dear Lamb,

On turning over in my mind the future of the 3rd Division

Training Group, I believe I am right in the supposition that this

Training Group has, at present, no bands. - It would be a very nice

thing if each of the Training Battalions could have a band of its

own. This would help to entertain the men, and would also greatly

improve training in marching and so on.

I am quite aware that it requires an effort to raise

funds for, and to purchase, band instruments, But I am writing to

ask your views as to how this can best be done.- Naturally, Units

in the field are not over anxious to part with their Comforts'

Funds in the interests of distant Training Battalions, so it would

be much better if the money could be raised by your troops themselves.-

Assuming that the instruments for the three bands would

cost say £400, this would amount to about 2/- per head on your

present strength, or say a subscription of 6d per head for each of

4 successive weeks. - Possibly, the personnel now with the Training

Battalions would be prepared to subscribe the whole amount required.

If this proved impossible, I think I could answer for something

like £150 from this Division (say £50 from each of the three front

line Brigades), provided that you could see your way to raise the

balance.- Will you kindly let me know what you think about the

whole proposal, and what you think could be done to achieve the end

aimed at.

With kind regards, yours sincerely,

Recd - from Bgdr Gen Brand

20/5/17

4' Bde Honours

     ____

France                             Peninsula

V.C.                  2                            1

C.B.                   -                           5

CMG                 1                           2

DSO                 11                           5

Bars to DSO    1                            -

M.C                 43                           6

Bars to M.C     3                            -

DCM                39                         15

M.M.               241                         10

Bars to M.M.    5                           -

M.S.M.               3                           -

Foreign            11                            1

                       ____                     _____

                       360                        45

1400

  800

______

   600

per Durrant

20/5/17

1. V.C

1. N C.B.

2. D.S.O. & 1 bar to D.S.O.

2. Order of white eagle of Serbia

18. Military Cross.

1. Croix de Chevalier

1. Cross of Kara George - Serbia

17. D.C.M.

1.   Meritorious Service Medals.

79. Military Medals.

1.   Serbian Gold Medal

48. M.I.D.

20/5/17.

MOVEMENTS of 11th BRIGADES BATTALIONS.

Up to daylight on May 24th 

"A" in PONT DE NIEPPE             41

"B" & "C" in ARMENTIERES        42 - 43

"D" in WATELANDS  (No. 1)        44

From daylight May 24th to)

June 2nd)

A  in PONT DE NIEPPE

B and C in LE TOUQUET Sector

D in WATERLANDS.

From June 2nd to W/X night

A in ST YVES sector (offensive front)

D in CATACOMBS

B and C in PONT DE NIEPPE or ARMENTIERES.

On X/Y night

A in ST YVES Sector

D in CATACOMBS

B in PONT DE NIEPPE
C move up to near PLOEGSTEERT WOOD.

On Y/Z night

41 A in ST YVES Sector

42 D in Left Reserve Station

43 C in Right Reserve Station

44 B move up to BUNHILL ROW.

After Zero

A in CATACOMBS

B,C,D, as may be ordered.

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Have copy made

1 for me

1 for file

[[GJ?]]

21/5