Charles E W Bean, Diaries, AWM38 3DRL 606/257/1 - 1916 - 1927 - Part 17

8.
COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN
AUSTRALIA & ENGLAND.
ACTION ON THE FRONT.
again referred to the country, and was
confident would be carried. If so
(says Birdwood to Whigham) "there will,
I imagine, be no difficulty about our
keeping up six divisions.' He therefore
xxx still urges sending of
Brigades to France, but as 
reinforcements.
28 June 1917.
Has been decided that
N.C.O.s and men who served on Gallipoli
will be granted the option of returning 
to their original units.
24 July 1917.
Battalions were still
being rigidly kept up on July 24 by
Birdwood. Brigades being preserved,
and should be sent over (view of
General Sclater, G.O.C., Southern
Command). (Evidently on chance of
conscription being passed.)
M'Cay was allowed to make 6 recommendations 
for cadet commissions per month,
Birdwood agrees(as most are ex-wounded
men) and suggest to War Office 15)
26 July 1917.
Whigham writes to
Birdwood. Both War Office and G.H.Q.
think, in view of situation regarding
Australian reinforcements, 16th and
17th Brigades should not be sent to
France at present; but pity to break
up cadre, as it "may even yet be
practicable to send them to the front
some day."
From this time breaking up began (i.e.,
before Ypres offensive and not because
of it).
M'Cay against the cadres being preserved
Also against "littering up France
with unemployed Battalion commanders
and brigadiers and staffs. Birdwood
doesn't agree to immediate breakup of
cadres.
9 Aug, 1917. From M'Cay to D.A.G., A.I.F., France.
Proposal that units of 6th Division be
used as reinforcements concurred in by
xxxxxx D.C.I.G.S. (Whigham) and
Director of Organisation. Whole bns
to be sent across as reinforcements
rearranged according to original units
of men, those who have not served at
the front to be allotted territorially.
11 August 1917. From M'Cay to D.A.G.,
A.I.F., France. Hopes decision to retain
skeleton brigade cadres will be
reconsidered as brigades cannot go to
front as complete units in view of
deficiency of reinforcements.
 

9.
ACTION TAKEN AT THE FRONT.
COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN
ENGLAND & AUSTRALIA.
14 August 1917. Deputy P.M.G.
Melbourne, asked Defence for
 composition of 6th Division, as xxx
mails were received for them.
Secretary had to answer (Aug. 22)
that nothing was known of the units
or of their location.
Mid-August 1917.  Large drafts being
sent from 6th Division.
22 August 1917. from M'Cay to
D.A.G., A.I.F., France. Advising
re number of men being returned to
3rd Division from 6th Division.
26 August 1917. Telegram from 3rd
Aust. Div. base Depot in France to
D.A.G.,A.I.F. 1160 other ranks late
6th Division fully trained arrived
today. May request be made for these
to proceed join battalions immediately
 ..... thus saving five days delay.
1 September 1917.  D.A.G.,A.I.F.,
to A.I.F. Depots in U.K. Question
of despatch of reinforcements from
Australia being intermitted during
winter months being referred to War
Office.
13 September 1917. Birdwood cables
to Defence. In continuation of message
of June 21). 16th and 17th Brigades
did not proceed France, but are now
utilized as reinforcements and will
shortly be broken up. 4th Division
which was withdrawn to 2nd Anzac last
May has now rejoined 1st Anzac. 3rd
Division has been continuously and is
still with 2nd Anzac.
(This must be in reply to an urgent
request for information from Australia)
17 September 1917. 196 officers
transferred to infantry units of AIF
in France, except about 4 sent to
general reinforcements. Also 49
other officers had been raised to
commissions in 6th Division - now set
free. 61,62,63,65, and 66,67,69,70 -
were the battalions formed.
24th September 1917. Staffs of
brigades broken up.  xxxx Antill sent
to Australia. Watson (17th Bde) to
Overseas Training Brigade as Colonel.
N.C.O's xxxxx of disbanded units had
reached some of the battalions in
France by 13 October.
1 November 1917. Legge says the
unauthorised creation of new units
in England will lead to great hardship.
 

10.
On 10 December 1917 a lady who had five
brothers doing their bit wrote to Mr.
Groom, M.P., saying she had had a
brother transferred to the 6th Division,
and asking if he could enlighten her in
any way about it. Groom sent the
letter to the Defence Department, who
replied that there is not and never has
been a 6th Division of the A.I.F.
(A very difficult reply to make explaining
how the battalions were formed)
 

TELEPHONE:
CENTRAL 4780.
ADDRESS ALL COMMUNICATIONS
To "THE SECRETARY."
COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA.
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE
MELBOURNE. 28th March 1927.
N0.....
Dear Mr. Bean,
With reference to your memorandum No. 1880 of the
25th inst relating to the formation of the 6th Division.
The telegrams you refer to were copied and put in an xx
envelope addressed to you, which I left on Mr. Newman's
table, as I expected you to call on him. After that I
gave the matter no further thought. I regret that
you did not receive them.
On the day following yourdeparture from Melbourne
Mr.Heney received from Mr.Bazley, under cover of his
memorandum No.1835, extracts concerning the 6th Division
including some reference to an Australian Army in 1916.
Enclosed please find extracts as desired. The first
three extracts were included in the records that I brought
over to Sydney in 1925,while the file containing the other
two is unregistered,and locked in Mr. Trumble's safe as a
secret document. If you would care to have this file
which I think would be advisable, a note to, Mr.Newman is
all that is required. have been unable to get any
record of what took place between 2nd April and 3rd May 16.
In 1925 I left a file with you dealing with the
formation of the 6th Division (D.A.G. 25/139); when you
have finished with this document ,could it be made
available to Mr.Heney please.
Yours sincerely,
A J Withers
C.E.W.Bean Esq.,
Historian,
Victoria Barracks
SYDNEY.
N.S.W.

GEN. BIRDWOOD TO DEFENCE dated 28.3.16
Am personally leaving for France tomorrow in command
first Army Corps, consisting of first, second and New 
Zealand Divisions. Godley remains in command of second
Army Corps composed of fourth and fifth Divisions. Later
when third Division arrives from Australia I will try
to arrange to go to first Army Corps and for transfer
of New Zealand Division to second Army Corps.-
Australian Army is not being formed at present........
DEFENCE TO WAR OFFICE dated 1st April 1916
Concur General Birdwood's suggestion Australian
Intermediate Base be moved to England leaving branch at
Egypt until Australian troops finally quit. Understand
all Australian troops. Egypt proceeding France. Should
their reinforcements and third division sailing May
proceed France. It is hoped that it may be possible to
form all troops into an Australian Army which would
gratify aspirations here and stimulate recruiting.Pearce.
(Cable drafted by the C.G.S.
WAR OFFICE TO DEFENCE dated 2nd April 1916.
As you will understand it is not possible to predict
now what measures the military situation may demand by
the time the two divisions in Egypt become ready to take
the field and the third division reaches Mediterranean
but every effort will be made to meet your wishes
regarding the formation of an Australian army as soon as
circumstances permit and this has alwaysbeen our intention
The two divisions in Egypt are not expected to be ready
to take the field before June and pending completion of
their training it would be very detrimental to change
Australian Base arrangements.
EXTERNAL AFFAIRS TO COLONIAL SECRETARY dated 3re May 1916
Commonwealth Government offer one additional division to
embark October 1st. This offer may cause difficulty
supplying total reinforcements after December but this
if grave can be overcome by utilizing this division as
reinforcements. Also prepared to offer personnel for
one double general hospital 1000 beds or alternative
personnel for two general hospitals each 500 beds.
(Cable drafted by the C.G.S.)
COLONIAL SECRETARY TO EXTERNAL AFFAIRS dated 16th May 1916
Yourx telegram 3rd May. Army Council much appreciate generous
offer your Government. They will gladly accept as many
men as Commonwealth can send but are strongly of opinion
that additional division should not be formed unless it
can be guaranteed that sufficient reserves to maintain both
five existing divisions and additional division will be
forthcoming as and when required. Without those reserves
divisions in Field become depleted which tends inevitably
to loss of moral. For five divisions average monthly
reinforcements for infantry alone will be 9000. Army
Council recommend therefore that if there is any doubt as
to ability of your Government to maintain regular and
sufficient flow of reinforcements for six divisions further
personnel should be sent as additional reinforcements
rather than as division. As regards organisation of
hospital Double General Hospital of 1000 beds is preferred.
 

6th Divn - see question 3
258.
August 15, 1925.
Mr. T.H.E. Heyes,
Australian Representative,
Historical Saction (Military Branch)
Audit House
Victoria Embankment,
London,  E.C.4. England
Dear Heyes,
There is much difficulty in tracing here various requests
which ware made by the Home Government for further troops etc. from
Australia. I think the files must have suffered in some cases
from "souveniring" Would it be possible for you to obtain access
to the High Commissioner's or Coloniel Office files on the subjects?
(1) The following is an instance as to which I particularly
require exact information. From speeches in Parliament and elsewhere
we know that just before June 22, 1915 the British Government sent a
message to the Australian Ministry saying that "every man is wanted".
These words are probably quotes from tho message. The Prime Minister 
(Fisher), in answer to a question, explained that he understood
that men were wanted "even without arms". Up to the present I have
been unable to obtain particulars of any such message.
(2) Could you also obtain for me some information on another
point? On October 5, 1915 the British Government cabled for an increase 
in the rate of reinforcements to replace normal wastage in
1916. The rate was to be 20% for infantry, light horse, gunners
and engineers, and 7% for medical units. An additional 10% resoeve
of trained men in Australia was also asked for. This cable was sent
"after consultation" between Hamilton, Birdwood, and the War Office.
Could you find out whether a similar demand was made on the other
Dominions? I went to find out the motive for the telegram - whether
this was a general increase in reinforcement rates, applied ea this
time to British and Dominion troops, or whether it applied to 
Australian and New Zealand troops only, end in any case what was the
reason on which it was based. Was it the heavy casualties at Loos?
(3) I should further like to find out if possible whether, when
on February 1, 1917 the British Government asked Australia to furnish
a sixth division, similar requests were sent to the New Zealand,
Canadian, and other Dominion Governments. This of course has an 
important bearing on Australia' responsibility. I take it that it is
almost certain that some such step was taken, but it is important to
us to know how the request originated. This can only be done by 
making inquiries from British sources.
lf you could assist me in these matters I should be
greatly obliged.
Yours sincerely,
C.E.W. BEAN
Copy sent to AWM
17/8/25

6^th Divn - see question 3
TEL. NO. CITY 1740  EXT....
TELEGRAPHIC ADDRESS

"CROTONATE, ESTRAND, LONDON"
ADDRESS ALL COMMUNICATIONS TO
THE OFFICIAL SECRETARY
AND QUOTE
NO......
COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA
Audit House, (Historical Sect.)
Victoria Embankment E.C.4.
AUSTRALIAN HOUSE
STRAND, LONDON W.C.2
15th October, 1925.
Dear Mr. Bean,
I have been in touch with the Colonial Office in
connection with the queries raised in your letter of August
15th. The Colonial Office officials have always been helpful
to us and in the present case I had the additional good
fortune to meet, as their representative, a Mr. H.F. Batterbee
who was with you at Oxford. He has been very helpful and was
kind enough to go through the various files with me.
The following are the conclusions we arrived at
and constitute the official answers to your questions.
They are embodied in an official letter to me from Mr. Batterbee.
Question 1.  There is no trace in the Dominions Office records
of the message of June 1915 from His Majesty's
Government to the Commonwealth Government with
regard to the need for men. The file of the "Times"
for that period contains no report of the message
although there is a reference to the subsequent
relevant statement by the Commonwealth Prime
Minister. It was perhaps a personal message from
the Prime Minister to the Prime Ministers of the
Dominions which was not sent through the Colonial
Office and there is, it would appear, little chance
of tracing it now.
Question 2. A telegram from the Governor General of Australia
to the Secretary of State on 9th October, 1915,
asks that Genl, Birdwood might be informed that his
views as to reinforcements had been placed before
the Commonwealth Minister of Defence and although
the message from Genl. Birdwood was not communicated
to or through the Secretary of State for the
Colonies 

2.
Question 2.
(ctd.) Colonies there is little doubt that this is the
telegram of 5th October and that it was sent direct
from Genl. Birdwood at Gallipoli to the Governor
General of Australia. In these circumstances
it might be concluded that the reason for the
request for an increase in the rate of reinforcements 
was the extent of the Australian losses on
the Peninsula and that it is improbable that
similar requests were addressed at that moment
to the other Dominions.
Question 3. The telegram from the Secretary of State to the
Governor General of Australia on 1st February, 1917,
is attached. The telegram explains the
circumstances attending the request and similar
messages were sent to the Governments of Canada
and New Zealand.
There is certain information on these questions which
the Colonial Office would prefer not to supply officially, and
I did not press them to do so. This information, which I was
allowed to see in confidence and which Mr. Batterbee said I
could pass on to you, is as follows:
Question 2. No record is held at the Colonial Office of any
requests for troops being sent to the other
Dominions within months of October 1915.
Question 3. Canada was asked for "further divisions". No number
was specified but it was made very clear that more
than one was xxxxx asked for.  New Zealand was asked for
another division.
If a line can be taken on the number of divisions asked
for from the Dominions, it appears that Australia was considered
at this date to have done more proportionately than the other
two Dominions as regards the fulfilment of her responsibility in
the matter of troops. The requests were written in a similar
strain but it appeared to me that the one to Canada was couched
in stronger terms than the others.
I intend to approach the War Office in the hope of
tracing the message referred to in Question 1, and also as
regards Question 2, to endeavour to secure definite information
as to the reason on which the increase in the rate of reinforcements 
was based.
In connection with question 1, I am attaching hereto
/references

3.
references to the message of June 1915, which I found in
the "Times" and the "Sydney Morning Herald". There is
just the possibility that you may not have seen them.
Yours sincerely,
T M Heyes
C.E.W. Bean Esq.
 

TELEGRAM:  The Governor General of the Commonwealth
of Australia to the Secretary of State
for the Colonies.
(Received Colonial Office 9.15 a.m.
9 October, 1915)
Please telegraph following message to
General Birdwood Dardanelles begins:-
I have conveyed your view as to reinforcements 
to Minister for Defence. Matter
will have his attention. Munro Ferguson:-
ends
R.M. FERGUSON.