Charles E W Bean, Diaries, AWM38 3DRL 606/256/1 - 1915 - 1936 - Part 6

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his staff at Tel-el-Kebir. A few days later, however, General
Murray appointed Major-General Hare and another staff to discharge
the duties of training. Could you tell me whether there was any
conference prior to this, and whether General Murray ever made clearing 
his reason for taking this step? In the absence of other information, 
I imagine that he did not consider Spencer Browne and staff
adequate for this important duty. It seems to me, however, that he
may have previously explained his intention to you as being the head
at that time of the A.I.F. in Egypt. I should be greatly obliged
for any assistance that you can give me concerning this matter.
Yours sincerely,
C.E.W. BEAN
 

GOVERNMENT HOUSE,
SALISBURY
21st September 1925.
My dear Bean,
Your letter reached me to-day just as I am
going out to camp to Manoeuvres, and I am afraid therefore
that I have not time to look up the papers this week, and
at the end of the week I am going to Scotland for what will
I expect, be a well earned holiday, and will not be back
till the middle of October. I am afraid therefore that I
shall not be able, to write to you very fully or definitely
until the end of October, but in the meantime, as far as
my memory serves me, the dates you give are correct and as
regards the original selestion scheme for expansion, I think General
White is right and that I made the first suggestion for it
to him as it seemed to me the obvious way of utilising the
reinforcements. Further, I always had in my mind the creation
of a complete New Zealand Division, and this naturally led
me to suggest the creation of more Australian Divisions. The
division of the veteran infantry battalions into two, was
certainly General Birdwoods own method.
I find it very hard to recollect clearly about
the training of the New Zealand and Australian reinforcements,
 

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But I am sure that Spencer Browne was left to do it,
certainly for the Australians if not for the New Zealanders,
and I cannot remember about the appointment of General Hare.
But, I am sure that General Murray would not have appointed
the latter without consulting me, but I shall probably be
able to clear this up when I can look up the papers, but if
not I will write to General Hare himself about it.
I have read your two volumes of the Official History
with the greatest interest, and will write to you more fully
later.
With Kindest regards
Yrs sincerely 
Alex Godley
Captain C.E.W.Bean,
Historian,
Victoria Barracks,
Sydney
 

H.N.
GOVERNMENT HOUSE
SALISBURY
15th November 1925.
My dear Bean,
In continuation of my letter of September 21st.,
I have now looked up my papers and find that I have very
little which can throw light on your difficulties. All
that I have is contained in letters to the New Zealand
Defence Minister, and the following are extracts which
appear relevant:- written from Ismailia.
20th January 1916.
"In reply to your letter of November 26th, with
regard to the question of reinforcements, we are now faced
with the difficulty of absorbing some 85.000 t0 90.000
Australasians, and I think it very likely that a 2nd
Australian and New Zealand Army Corps will be formed.
There are some 35.000 t0 40.000 altogether in Egypt,
surplus to the requirements of this Army Corps, and
Australia is sending another 50.000, quite apart from what
they have already sent and reinforcements. When these new
formations are made, I hope that we may be able to have a
purely New Zealand Division and make a 3rd New Zealand
Infantry Brigade. The wastage now will, of course, be
 

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very small for sometime, and we can utilize some thousand
or so men of existing reinforcements as the nucleus, and
I expect we shall prpbably telegraph to you in a few days,
to ask whether you can provide the balance of men required
for a third Infantry Brigade, and reinforcements for it as
well as the other two. I expect that probably you will
wish to do this, now that Australia is doing so much more,
and as the result of your War Census.
General Birdwood has just arrived back from the
Dardanelles, and I am on the point of starting to Cairo to
meet him, and Sir Archibald Murray, and discuss the
question with them".
January 22nd.
"I left this letter open till after I had seen
Sir Archibald Murray and General Birdwood, and the result
of our conference has been that, it is now proposed to make
an Australasian Army, under Birdwood's Command, consisting
of two Corps, of which I shall Command the first, or present
existing one, and a second Australian Corps will be formed."
19th February 1916.
"You will probably know that the Australians are
 

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raising a 3rd Division in Australia and a 4th and 5th
Division here at Tel-el-Kebir. This will make five
Australian Divisions and one New Zealand Division, a fair
proportion to population, and these will be formed into
two Corps, of which I shall command one, composed of the
N.Z.Division and two of the Australian - which, it has
not yet been quite settled, as there is an idea that they
may like me to have the two new ones, instead of the two
that now form the existing Army Corps."
4th March 1916.
"The question of the despatch of the Anzac troops
to France has exercised us very much lately, and I enclose
you copies of a note on the subject which I wrote for
General Birdwood, and of a letter to him which will show
you my views. The idea at first was that the 1st,2nd,
and 4th Australian Divisions should be the first to go,
but it was obvious that this meant that the New Zealand
Division was being kept back for my benefit, because I was
not the first Corps Commander to go. I said that this
could not possibly be done and that the New Zealand Divn.
must go in its proper turn, though at the expense of my
 

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being divorced from it. But the matter is by no means
definitely settled yet and if, as we hope, the Anzac Army
is authorised, with Birdwood in Command of it, then I
should go in command of the old Anzac Corps, namely the
1st and 2nd Australian Divisions and the New Zealand
Division. These are the three Divisions which will go
first in any case, and if they go as a Corps, they will be
commanded either by General Birdwood or myself, in the order
named, according to whether the Anzac Army is authorised
and Birdwood put in command of it, or whether he is to
revert to the status of Corps Commander. That is the
situation in a nutshell."
March 25th 1916.
"Since writing the above, I have heard from
General Headquarters that it is probable that reinforcements
from Australia and New Zealand will be still sent to this
country and trained here.
"In this connection you will be glad to hear that
our Training Depot is, in any case, going to be moved down
from Cairo to Tel-el-Kebir, right out into the desert and
away from the temptations of the city, which is a great
 

H.N.
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matter. I have been fighting hard to get this done ever
since we got back from Gallipoli, for both Australians and
New Zealanders, and it has at last been done."
I also found the following note on the command
and administrative control of the A.I.F. which I sent to
G.H.Q. in Egypt, and which I think will interest you ;
[*dated 14/1/16.*]. "I find that the Command of the Australian
Imperial Force, which is at present vested by statutory
authority from the Commonwealth Government of Australia,
in the G.O.C.,A.L.N.Z.Army Corps, involving as it does
the administrative control of the Headquarters, Australian
Imperial Force in Cairo, three Mounted Brigades, one Infantry
Brigade and two Infantry Training Brigades (each of them
of almost the strength of a Division) Base Depots, numerous
line of Communciation Units, Base Squadrons,etc., in
addition to the normal Units of the Corps, is more than
can be satisfactorily done by the Commander of the existing
Army Corps and a Corps Staff.
"The work of a normal Army Corps, especially
when situated as this is in occupation of a most important
section of the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, is more
 

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than sufficient for a Corps Commander and his Staff, and
it would make for the efficiency of the Australian and
New Zealand Forces, and help matters very much, if the
statutory powers of the Australian Imperial Force might
be vested in an Army Commander. This will really be
absolutely necessary, as the large reinforcements, fresh
units, etc., arrive, as they shortly will, from Australia,
and for the formation of the new Divisions, which must at
once be faced, from the large numbers of reinforcements,
returned convalescents, etc., now in Egypt (vide my
memorandum of yesterday's date on the subject of the
formation of a 2nd Corps.)
"With reference to Force Order No.l.Secret,
received to-day, I think that I should point out that
hitherto Sir William Birdwood has set his face against the
formation of an Anzac Mounted Division. The Mounted
Brigades have hitherto been employed with Divisions, and
both he and I have thought that this was the best way of
employing them.
"It seems unlikely/that it will be possible to
concentrate the Division as such - (please see my
 

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memorandum above quoted, and also order of Battle of the
Corps sent you yesterday).
"The question of the Command of this Mounted
Division, if formed, also I think requires a little
consideration, as Major-General H.G.Chauvel, CMG., who is
a permanent Officer, and therefore, in that respect senior
to Major-General Russell, is only acting in Command of the
1st Australian Division, pending the return of Major-General
Walker, and, as he is a Light Horse Brigadier, and the
Division must necessarily be composed chiefly of
Australian Light Horse, his claims would, I trust, receive
consideration.
"Please do not think that I wish to make any
difficulties about the formation of the Mounted Division,
should it be the deliberate intention to form one, but,
in the absence of Sir William Birdwood, I feel I ought to
point out the considerations above referred to, and also
that it has been his policy and mine (vide Order of Battle
to avoid forming any fresh Units, owing to the difficulty
of finding Staffs, etc., and various Dominion complications,
pending a decision on the larger question of the disposal