Charles E W Bean, Diaries, AWM38 3DRL 606/270 PART 2/1 - 1918 - 1939 - Part 7

Conflict:
First World War, 1914–18
Subject:
  • Documents and letters
Status:
Awaiting approval
Accession number:
RCDIG1066669
Difficulty:
5

Page 1 / 10

23 a pt Dungay Curwvillemboh. at 18th March, 1920 Copt. C.E.W, Beon Nistoria Barrocks. Sydney Dea Sir Yours received + gave me quite a surpose. As there was no statement. ever segned by me to the effect shit. Billy Evens was the gunner, you can imagine my surprise My mimory hamt slipfed me up as I have an old registraton book still which shows in entry elongside glm Aolibrations caued out the day previously by Myjs Beanis & myself from OP. April D. Richtzer. Ca. Capt Boro Mennhein Mr Richtapen shat down by Serrul & Bob. Bet Ellis Hrough body Nt Bly, Anstorlian pilst clamd honeer. British Armen wiit; Brown Crying almost. At. abelinent iby Gusson Com, pposently; Daid Ril. there were only two guns firing at the time. Smithy says infontrynon pring with rifle from Tank gun when he cristed. Soe. ( Runch Ne was) says. gonns between himself & Bty Wene pring when he was shot down, Bath mny guns regestened Leves no donbt they got them. No somniss obtainable The foregoing is a upy of rote written on the day & night of the shorting Seccul + Bune were sent to Bedquasters by yor Beorns with myself. I ffrom that date the nitter as for an I was concerned was finished until I was bouled over the wals re Evens angratulations Sircul while tershing me the menhimon of the gun & staying a shorting content belween ourclues while the bittery was in Astion I machore gan yore unilant attract- enemy attention
884 was clucky enough to get a piece of H.E. through The Migh + was passed on to lospital & while he was away tons received his congratulation As I stated previously. Siscul b Bun Receved Raulimons missage. Have written to the Editer of the Herold asking him if Mke knows Sessuls address to prwerd a little copy to him which should cless him up on one point. Sicul must have thought hat I was a giver set of a bisd & in all probability He was shown a statement by somebody uncerned in the conspincy to shut, him up because hed know that it was too queer a deal to kirk against. Regarding Mhis statement re being in charge of tthe two guns He was guit correct but in action us 1 gunner is the gunser in charge, as everyone kums that with two men on a gun, neten. spanted its A case for the individual Am enclosing you a copy We forwirded to the Heoald Yours ffaithfully J. C. Dople. When you have found out from Major Beaves, which gunners RS were actually interviewed chy you you will know wthat my memory. aider by recorded forts so pretty trustworthy Thanking you for your coussty & wishog you everymursel 18
886 C Some atime ago I wrote to Copt Bean in in attempt to prove that Suncul was one of the gunnns of the 5200 Bly who should have cbeen congratuloted + he inforned for lletter. Mat Sercul himself in an enterview with your paper in $1920 stated that the Se there was a a signed statement to the effert that No 598 Gor W. J. Evens. was the gunner who shal at Richtofen, or April 20st 1010. d can assun your sers shdl no sent statiment was segned My me te furthernire that any statement seen by Serrul or teld in Bottery records is not genuine Senul himself was the gunner whom I refortue to the O.C. bo sstual gunner & at ao time haw I divergedfrom the statement (oral) mode on the day of the artical shuting & subsequently An eveloing a stompn envelipe and trust that you will be able directly or indirectly its assure seccul permeans of this statement jana unsider that Sercul wis me an apology if the thought for so mony years that such a statiment he quiter was mine) that if he so ever interviened by any popers representation again, he can omilt my nome as being the Sponsor of Gur dogt state facts only, He abov is a cpy of the contents unmbullited of the original forwarded to the Editis of the Honld
89 5526. 20 February 1930. Dear Mr. Treloar, Would you kindly send me copies of the entries in the 14th A.F.A. Brigade diary of April 1918, or of the report of the 53rd Battary, 1f one exists, concerning the bringing down of Baron Richthofen, including the names of any gunners mentioned in connection with the affaird We have a roneod copy of the 5th Division's report, which gives the names of Brans and Buley but I am anxious to know if any others are mentioned by the brigade or battery. Yours sincerely, Mr. Joh. Treloar Australian War Memorial Kelbarn
90 TELEPHONE NoS. TELEGRAPHIC ADDRESS COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA. AUSWARMUSE. 2597 P2SeS. COMMUNICATIONS TO RE ADOREasto TO THE DIRECTOR AUSTRALLAN WAR MEMORIAL. They Cae thair tien, For thel gobiealt thes IN REPLY PIEAGE OUOTE POST OFFICE BO 214 D. received a praise which never ases and tomb most storious -not so much the tomb in 114 EXHIBITION BUILDINGS, MELBOURNE. 0 which they lie, but that in which their tame survives, to be remembered for ever when occasion comes for word or deed ... 6th March, 1930. Dear Mr. Bazley, With reference to your letter 5526 of the 20th February, the reference in the 14th A.F.A. Brigade diary to the bringing down of Baron Richthofen is only a very brief one and gives no particulars which would be of any assistance to you. It is as Follows :- April 2lst. - An enemy plane was brought down by Lewis gunners of the 53rd Battery, the pilot who was killed proved to be Captain Baron von Richthofen. No subsequent reference is made in the diary to the incident. We have, however, a report by officers of the 55rd Battery and a copy is attached hereto. You will notice that only the names of Gunners Evans and Buie are given. In Fact, these two men with Sergeant Popkin of the 24th Machine Gun Company, are the only machine gunners mentioned in the records which we have. In searching through the press cuttings relating to the controversy, I find that in the Herald of 3/12125 there appeared a report of an interview with a Bombardier J. S. Seccull of the 53rd Battery who claimed to be in charge of Whews sun pits 124,695 and 124,667 at Post 9.19,672 (evidently .19,b.5.2) near Sailly-re-Sec, Ir the Somme area.? I am enclosing this cutting and shall be glad if you will kindly have it returned when no Longer, required. Se We have just received Floyd Gibbons’ book The Red Knight of Germany and in case it may prove of some assistance, I am having it forwarded to you under separate cover. Kindly complete and return the attached form of receipt when the book comes to hand. Yours sincerely, N Secculls bte wal is were o coty of the b attared reperts 136l thethree offficers Mr. A. W. Bazley, clo Official Hishorran, Victoria Barracks, Paddington, N.S.W.
91 CopT. REPORT ON DESTRUCTION OF BARON VON RICHTHOFENS AEROPLANE, which crashed at J.19.b.5.2. (62D) at about 11.0 a.m. 21.4.18. LIEUT. J.C. DoYLE states:- At about 11 a.m. I was in the forward Lewis gun pit (1.24.b.9.S.) watching planes manoeuvering over our lines. Two planes flying at about 150 feet - a British SOPWITH CAMEL pursued by an enemy triplane painted red - approached the Lewis gun from the East. Owing to one plane being in the line of fire, fire was not opened on the enemy plane until it was less than 100 yards off. The enemy plane was then firing at the British machine. After several bursts of fire the Hun plane turned N.E. and wobbled as if out of control. While turning, further effective bursts were fired. The plane, out of control, veered to the N. and crashed. No. 598, Gunner EVANS, W.J. was the Lewis gunner.) (Signed) J.C.DOYLE, Lieut. Lieut. A.B. ELLIS, M.C., states :- I was standing by the rear Lewis gun (I.24.b. 6.S.) at about 11 a.m. when the two planes approached from the East flying at a height of about 150 feet. The gunner was able to fire direct on to the body of the enemy pilot. As soon as fire was opened the plane turned N. Further bursts were fired and the plane crashed. No. 3001, Gunner BUIE, R. was the Lewis gunner. (Signed) A.B. ELLIS, Lieut. MAJOR L. E. BEAVIS, D.S.O., states :- I saw the two planes approach and the two Lewis guns open fire when the enemy plane was at a height of about 150 feet and 160 to 200 yards away. It was flying directly towards the Lewis guns. The fire was effective as the plane turned N.E. apparently out of control. It then turned towards the N. and crashed. The wounds in the pilot’s body were mainly in the chest and stomach. Apparently the first bursts of fire were effective. Both the guns inflicted wounds on the pilot in my opinion. If the enemy plane had not been turned off by our fire, it would have been able to drive down the British plane. (Signed) L. E. BEAVIS, Major. O.C. 53rd Battery, AFA.
92 EXTRACT FROM THE MELBOURNE THERALDT, 26/2/1930. WHO KILLED RICHTHOFEN7 Sir, I would like to state my version of the death of Richthofen. I was in the air on the morning of April 21, 1918, and happened to see the fight from a distance. I was not in the actual encounter, having instructions to attack stragglers. Suddenly a Camel - by the markings I saw it was Lieutenant May’s - emerged from the melee and attempted to make for the cover of a ridge. A red Fokker triplane followed on May's tail, firing short rapid bursts. Captain Roy Brown, seeing May’'s predicament, followed the red Fokker and, closing up to a range of about 100 yards, fired a long burst from both guns. I could see his tracer hitting the cockpit of the Fokker. The German machine roomed, banked steeply, and, obviously crippled, glided down to land between the Aliied and German Lines. He landed under control, so the machine was not damaged. After finishing my patrol I returned to the acrodrome and heard that the pilot of the red Fokker was Richthofen and that Brown had got him. The Australian Lewis gunners certainly hit the machine, but their bullets hit about two feet behind the pilot’s seat. Any pilot who was in the air that morning will confirm this statement. Yours etc. L.A. MELLOR. Caulfiedd. 2/Lieut, R.F.C. Feb. 25.
AUTARANDL 5637. 95 25 March 1930. J.Ce Boyle, Esq.. Dungay, Hurwillumbah, N.S.N. Dear Sir. I have to acknowledge, your letter of March 18 and to let you know that further inquiries are being made into the matter of the statement, said to have been signed by you, that Gunner Evans was the man who brought down Richthofen. Yours faithfully. SoOCOtaN.
AM No. 7/1140 94 5636. 25 March 1930. Dear Mr. Treloar, RICRENOFENIS DEATH. With further reference to your letter of March 6, Licutenant J.C. Doyle says no statement was ever signed by me to the ffffat that Gunner Evans was the man who brought I should therefore be grateful if you down Richthofen. would let us have a photostat copy of the statement in question which it said to have been signed by Lieutenant Doyle. Yours sincerely. Mr. J.L. Treloar, Australian War Memorial, Box 214D, G.P.O., Malbourne.
2 Richtofin 4A Bd Be. L Punch Mys Seccull was present as pt of crew of one gun, but was not actially on the frem. Evans & Bace were the penners. He has cnferred with Several former members of his batting who confirin his.

88
[*Acknowledged
Have asked

AWM for a photostat
copy of the alleged report.*]
Dungay,
Murwillumbah,
18th March, 1920.
Capt. C.E.W. Bean.
Victoria Barracks.
Sydney.

Dear Sir,
Yours received & gave me quite a surprise.
As there was no statement ever signed by me to the effect that
Billy Evans. was the gunner, you can imagine my surprise.
My memory hasn't slipped me up, as I have an old
registration book still which shows an entry alongside gun calibrations
carried out the day previously by Major Beavis & myself from A.P.
April 21. Richtofen. Cav. Capt, Baron Mennheim von Richtofen shot down by
[*?*] Seccul & Bob.  Boyd Ellis brought body to Bty, Australian pilot claimed honour.
British airmen visit.  Brown crying, almost.  Not believed by Squadron Com, apparently: said that
there were only two guns firing at the time.  Smithy says infantrymen firing with rifle from
Tank gun when he crashed.  Joe. (Lt. Punch that was) says. guns between himself & Bty
were firing when he was shot down.  Both my guns registered, there's no doubt they got
him.  No souvenirs obtainable.
The foregoing is a copy of notes written on the day & night of the shooting.
Seccul & Buie were sent to Headquarters by Major Beavis with myself,
& from that date the matter as far as I was concerned was finished
until I was hauled over the coals re Evans' congratulations.
Seccul while teaching me the mechanism of the gun &
staging a shooting contest between ourselves while the battery was in
action & machine gun fire couldn't attract enemy attention

 

88a
was lucky enough to get a piece of H.E. through
the thigh & was passed on to hospital & whilst he was
away Evans received his congratulations.
As I stated previously, Seccul & Buie received Rawlinsons'
message.
Have written to the Editor of the Herald asking him if
he knows Seccul's address to forward a little copy to him which
should clear him up on one point.  Seccul must have
thought that I was a queer sort of bird & in all probability
he was shown a statement by somebody concerned in the conspiracy
to shut him up because he'd know that it was too queer a
deal to kick against:
Regarding his statement re being in charge of the two guns.
He was quite correct but in action No 1 gunner is the gunner in
charge, as everyone knows that with two men on a gun, sudden.
separated, its a case for the individual.
Am enclosing you a copy I've forwarded to the Herald.
Yours faithfully,
J.C. Doyle.
PS.  When you have found out from Major Beavis, which gunners
were actually interviewed by you you will know that my memory.
aided by recorded facts is pretty trustworthy.
Thanking you for your assisting & wishing you every success. [[?]]
JD

 

88b.
Copy.
Some time ago I wrote to Capt. Bean in an attempt to prove that
Seccul was one of the gunners of the 53rd Bty who should have
been congratulated & he informed me per letter. that Seccul himself in an
interview with your paper in 1925 stated that the Se there was an
a signed statement to the effect that No 598 Gnr W.J. Evans.
was the gunner, who shot at Richtofen on April 21st 1918.
I can assure you sirs that no such statement was signed
by me and furthermore that any statement seen by Seccul or held
in Battery records is not genuine.
Seccul himself was the gunner whom I reported to the A.C.
as actual gunner, & at no time have I diverged from the
statement (oral) made on the day of the actual shooting & subsequently.
Am enclosing a stamped envelope and trust that you will be
able directly or indirectly to assure Seccul per means of this
statement (and consider that Seccul owes me an apology,
if he thought for so many years that such a statement he quoted was
mine), that if he is ever interviewed by any papers representative again,
he can omit my name as being the Sponsor of Gnr day; & state
facts only.
The above is a copy of the contents (unembellished) of the original
forwarded to the Editor of the Herald).

 

89
5526.
20 February 1930. 

Dear Mr Treloar,
Would you kindly send me copies of the entries
in the 14th A.F.A. Brigade diary of April 1918, or of the
report of the 53rd Battery, if one exists, concerning the
bringing down of Baron Richthofen, including the names of
any gunners mentioned in connection with the affair?  We have
a roneod copy of the 5th Division's report, which gives the
names of Evans and Buie;  but I am anxious to know if any
others are mentioned by the brigade or battery.
Yours sincerely,

AW Bazley
 

Mr. J.L. Treloar,
Australian War Memorial,
Melbourne

 

90
COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA.
TELEPHONE  Nos.
F2597.
F2598.
TELEGRAPHIC ADDRESS
"AUSWARMUSE."
COMMUNICATIONS TO BE ADDRESSED TO
"THE DIRECTOR."
IN REPLY PLEASE QUOTE
No. 7/1/40.
AUSTRALIAN WAR MEMORIAL,
POST OFFICE BOX 214 D.
EXHIBITION BUILDINGS, MELBOURNE.
"They gave their lives.  For that public gift they
received a praise which never ages and a
tomb most glorious - not so much the tomb in
which they lie, but that in which their fame
survives, to be remembered for ever when occasion
comes for word or deed . . . . . "
6th March, 1930.
Dear Mr Bazley,
With reference to your letter 5526 of the 20th February,
the reference in the 14th A.F.A.  Brigade diary to the bringing
down of Baron Richthofen is only a very brief one and gives no
particulars which would be of any assistance to you.  It is as
follows :-
"April 21st. - An enemy plane was brought down
by Lewis gunners of the 53rd Battery, the pilot
who was killed proved to be Captain Baron von
Richthofen."
No subsequent reference is made in the diary to the incident.  We
have, however, a report by officers of the 53rd Battery and a
copy is attached hereto.  You will notice that only the names
of Gunners Evans and Buie are given.  In fact, these two men with
Sergeant Popkin of the 24th Machine Gun Company, are the only
machine gunners mentioned in the records which we have.
In searching through the press cuttings relating to the
controversy, I find that in the Herald of 8/12/25 there appeared
a report of an interview with a Bombardier J. S. Seccull of the
53rd Battery who claimed to be in charge of "Lewis gun pits
124,695 and 124,665 at Post J.19,652 (evidently J.19,b.5.2) near
Sailly-1e-Sec, in the Somme area."  I am enclosing this cutting
and shall be glad if you will kindly have it returned when no
longer required.
[*returned*]
[*Seccull's statement

is merely a copy of the
attached reports by
the three 53 Bty
officers.*]
We have just received Floyd Gibbons' book "The Red Knight
of Germany" and in case it may prove of some assistance, I am
having it forwarded to you under separate cover.  Kindly complete
and return the attached form of receipt when the book comes to
hand.
Yours sincerely,
JL Treloar

Mr. A.W. Bazley,
c/o Official Historian,
Victoria Barracks,

Paddington, N.S.W. 

 

91
C o p y.
REPORT ON DESTRUCTION OF BARON VON RICHTHOFEN'S AEROPLANE,
which crashed at J.19.b.5.2. (62D) at about 11.0. a.m.  21.4.18.
LIEUT. J.C. DOYLE states:-
"At about 11 a.m. I was in the forward Lewis gun pit
(1.24.b.9.5.) watching planes manoeuvering over our lines.  Two
planes flying at about 150 feet - a British SOPWITH CAMEL
pursued by an enemy triplane painted red - approached the Lewis
gun from the East.  Owing to one plane being in the line of
fire, fire was not opened on the enemy plane until it was less
than 100 yards off.  The enemy plane was then firing at the
British machine.  After several bursts of fire the Hun plane
turned N.E. and wobbled as if out of control.  While turning,
further effective bursts were fired.  The plane, out of control,
veered to the N. and crashed.

No. 598, Gunner EVANS, W.J. was the Lewis gunner."
(Signed) J.C. DOYLE, Lieut.

Lieut. A.B. ELLIS, M.C., states :-
"I was standing by the rear Lewis gun (I.24.b.6.5.) at about
11 a.m. when the two planes approached from the East flying at a
height of about 150 feet.  The gunner was able to fire direct
on to the body of the enemy pilot.  As soon as fire was opened
the plane turned N.  Further bursts were fired and the plane
crashed.
No. 3001, Gunner BUIE, R. was the Lewis gunner."
(Signed) A.B. ELLIS, Lieut.

MAJOR L.E. BEAVIS, D.S.O., states :-
"I saw the two planes approach and the two Lewis guns open
fire when the enemy plane was at a height of about 150 feet and
100 to 200 yards away.  It was flying directly towards the
Lewis guns.  The fire was effective as the plane turned N.E.
apparently out of control.  It then turned towards the N. and
crashed.
The wounds in the pilot's body were mainly in the chest and
stomach.
Apparently the first bursts of fire were effective.  Both
the guns inflicted wounds on the pilot in my opinion.  If the
enemy plane had not been turned off by our fire, it would have
been able to drive down the British plane.
(Signed) L.E. BEAVIS, Major.
O.C.  53rd Battery, AFA. 

 

92
EXTRACT FROM THE MELBOURNE "HERALD", 26/2/1930.
WHO KILLED RICHTHOFEN?
Sir,
I would like to state my version of the death of Richthofen.
I was in the air on the morning of April 21, 1918, and happened to
see the fight from a distance. I was not in the actual encounter,
having instructions to attack stragglers.  Suddenly a "Camel" - by
the markings I saw it was Lieutenant May's - emerged from the melee
and attempted to make for the cover of a ridge.  A red Fokker
triplane followed on May's tail, firing short rapid bursts.  Captain
Roy Brown, seeing May's predicament, followed the red Fokker and,
closing up to a range of about 100 yards, fired a long burst from
both guns.  I could see his tracer hitting the cockpit of the Fokker.

The German machine zoomed, banked steeply, and, obviously crippled,
glided down to land between the Allied and German lines.  He landed
under control, so the machine was not damaged.  After finishing my
patrol I returned to the aerodrome and heard that the pilot of the 
red Fokker was Richthofen and that Brown had got him.  The Australian
Lewis gunners certainly hit the machine, but their bullets hit about
two feet behind the pilot's seat.  Any pilot who was in the air that
morning will confirm this statement.

Yours etc.
L.A. MELLOR.
2/Lieut, R.F.C.
Caulfield.
Feb. 25.

 

93
5637.
25 March 1930.
J.C. Doyle, Esq.,
Dungay,
Murwillumbah, N.S.W.
Dear Sir,
I have to acknowledge your letter of March 18
and to let you know that further inquiries are being made
into the matter of the statement, said to have been signed
by you, that Gunner Evans was the man who brought down
Richthofen.
Yours faithfully,
A.W. Bazley
Secretary.

 

94
A.W.M. No. 7/1/40
5636.
25 March 1930.
Dear Mr. Treloar,
RICHTHOFEN'S DEATH.
With further reference to your letter of March
6, Lieutenant J.C. Doyle says "no statement was ever signed
by me" to the effect that Gunner Evans was the man who brought
down Richthofen.  I should therefore be grateful if you
would let us have a photostat copy of the statement in question
which is said to have been signed by Lieutenant Doyle.
Yours sincerely,
A.W. Bazley
 

Mr. J.L. Treloar,

Australian War Memorial,
Box 214D, G.P.O.,
Melbourne.

 

95
Richthofen.    HN
53rd Bty. 

Lt Punch says Seccull was present as
pt of crew of one gun, but was
not actually on the gun.  Evans
& Buie were the gunners.
He has conferred with several
former members of his battery who
confirm this.

 



 

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