General, Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 22, 2 January - 1 February 1919- Part 1

Conflict:
First World War, 1914–18
Subject:
  • Documents and letters
Status:
Open to contributions
Accession number:
RCDIG0000640
Difficulty:
4

Page 1 / 10

K Froat Enelope so addessed. Lt M A Mseth 1 C CX
9p 21/19 Re H Kyson sr G.O.C. 1st Aust. dis my tile Draft tocopy only 52 Aust. Coops (for information) My dear General. A day as two ago, my Department posmigated General Instructions which containg an explanation of the whole procedure, for the No selection & dispatch, by Divisions, of Iuture personnal b repatiation. I am now writing to request that, after you & you staff have had an apportunity of studying there order in detail, you will be io kind a to woste me whether the matter os clear to you, and whether you consider you will be able to operate the procaluse smoothly, and with a min mum of prumbling on the part of the men. I am afraid that I have had to cast upon Divisional Comman does a somewhat heavy burden of work & responsibility in regart to the composition of their Ember Kation Groups. But the only alternative would have been to have all this work done by the offices of this Depart. -ment, which would have meant practically taking all contril of the Dension out of the hands of its commanted. - Morroves, I think it is likely to be much better done by those who are in close touch with the whole of the affairs of the Dursiounl proup, than by extra-Divisional officeer she main object of the scheme is to secuve a regular, simple and expedition vontine, which will at the same time safemand to the officer + man all presidence rights which they have acquieed under some othe previously published refulations. - But thes ar pood other points to be considered then When we commense bleeding the Bernon on a wholisal Scale, the remainder, at any point of time, innot of course continue to exist as an organized formation, properly supplied and administeredl. This is where your principal difficulty will arise, Fo you will be in the position of constantly having to reconstruct and vorfang your command, as unto become deplited as entirely dirappent, (sygcdinistt and of having to preseve the balance between the py senvce tob & the numbers of troops who have to be administeral. - to do this, all while at the same time releasing those who are entitled to po, as joing
11 to be a complix business, but I am afraid that there difficulties are, in any case, menitable in the chore of your a detin While not desiring to hampet you method of carrying out you the instructions which have been wsual and it is ko this verson that stitnt have been detailad instructions as to pass 12 have pruoposely been omitted) I wish to offer one as two suppitions for gour con- sideration distent of treating you Dirsionl proup as one cutity, it may pave very expedient to divide it into three approminnately equal Einbarkition Brigade Gurp - Your first quote would be allocited to A Biygade Grup, your next to B Brigide poup & so on in notation. This would mean that cach Brpade Girup would have about a month between ity respective quater, during which it can be methodically reaopangal anyine & troop movements can take place deliberately. It would, I thk, cause len dissoganigation to the Division as a whole, to each Bipule tromp to lose 1000 men all at once, & then have a month on a fixed basis, rather than his the Dinsion to lose 1000 men every 10 days ordlysy London a Par And it should, moreare, help to solve probling of leave spocal wal all the thonts of the turnong In connection with such rorfanyation of poups, you should not hesitutily to act boldly, both by coalessing unito fo administrative extenpust proposes, by totally deplatiy some of the small units, by Lydly making temparary transfer of personeal (particularly of train con- Tlies and Ambulances) and by fetting Coops & Army approval tote composhensive to your carlying out a ppeapoaphical shoinkap of you billiting areas, consouant with the shomkage in give numbers. - I am sinte awave that, acadamically, a cnit of ought to continue to exnnt until the last of the 1918 men are realy to leave; but we are facel with a problem of steady dissolution, and we must de complicate matter by being hoss too acadenns, especially in the lates stages. finally A junctire t will alrive when you reduce you whole Division to two Brigade Govnps, by temporanly trning Brigides of a S(deplated) Hattalions, or t Atilley Shipale of E Hatter, any third of the letting tgade stafps so i & finally to a Sample Mpale Granp, when it would be time to the Divrnond staff to so. I have been at special pains to evolve a scheme which should be as definite & simple as possible, as that every man might be able to from 1FF
some approxiinate conception of the probable time he will still have to remain away from home. - The sault exactly bear out what I foreshadowed in my initial Address, my in that, even when we pat- are demobitiation going at the (probably) mayinu vate of 500 men perday, it is going to involve that most 1916 man & all 19172 1918 een will be on one hands to many months to come. I trust therefore that no tale conception will arise among the men that, because the machnacy show sign of starting to work, that inference therfore all will get home very soon. This would lead to freat tend to disappointment, & would defent our hopes of getting men in laop nember to volunter for education or industry. - I sincerely hope that you will make it your specil business to inspir you command with a carrect outlook, and that you will continue every effort to induce men of later catyones to come to England t useful transition work. One last point. - I hope it is pint clear fom pass 2 that the general mastimaty of demobilization which in the subject of this letter in no way touches as concerns all the special cases he which I have already legislated, all of whom will be deilt with, in dividutly on totally different lines Hill Gorl Kiddly acknowledg cape receipt of this letter, dinect to me personally) With Kindnt regard your very sincerely. N.B. - Ultimately get 1Dcopie, inc. 2 Hes tile & 1h Whithan & 1 R. D.D. Ey]
3/1/1 Drafts Hustralian Coops For General Birdwood asa. My personnel Branch dealing with Education Employment and all indi- vidual special cases is expanding idly and growing beyond capacity of present head of Branch Burrant aaa I consider it essenteal appoint over him best available offices with organizingability aar Can Colonel Bruche be made available and reposr here earliest possible. ann Monash Demobaust AIF HGrS 5 th Anny
D. C. 1.1, 13t Copy File Atr DD4 3/1/9 4 Custrp p 42(to My dear Genroal Some Cases have occured of personnal from Uints having been omo friented discharges, carly repatriation &c by ope ofen without referense to Dursional & Unit Commander. - I preatly repet this, which was due to the inexperience of some of my Staff. I have taken step to ensure that it will not ocew afain On the other hand, mmerous case occut where, the man concerned being clearly, in my judgement, Entitled to one or the other of the beneft provided for in my General Instructions, reference to Unit Commanders has elicited the response not approved a words to that effect. I am therefore writing you to ack you to explain to your thit Commander that the only circumstance which would justi- by a Commande in refusing to afree to the withdrawal of an office ar man from his Wult, is when he is militarily indispensible. - It would in deed have to be an extreme case where a mans allotted dutie could not be ejually well done by another,; such as the case of a member of a Asparters staff. - In no case would a C.O. be justified in replying not appeoved or in refusing to sin the form, merely because he did not afree to the man receiving the that is for me & my officer to decide benefit applied tilys othe and we, y cousse, act upon endence hom ontede which is not avilabl to the 6.D. All the C.O. has got to cartify to is that the man can be spared; except only in the case of men of bad character when I should expect to be told of it tor my puidance in piryg a dicision whileprotesting on relve afairest t porte The whole policy of my Department is to meet the wishes of every individual man as feel as circumstances permit. this is some small complnsation b the secrifices which we have for four years called upon all to make. I trust therefore that you will take steps to see that the approval of C.O io not asbitrarily withheld in such cases yus smerely eatoe
3/1/19 Demol Pre Agenda. Oction in Gigps goeuy lianon Anstati Limion Egpt dianon G4d Whole Ordnand Oneation (conference) oesinion an to Egnipment t be letter by the men Consit Petman dett ction in loop Disposal of prisoner & fill punishment people, orderi Closing Casterns ARgins tat Seuds B. (tor Sen) te Densbk hiveopooe, with Soueville Buix b Bepagand Specken & Denny wis concenn densilst oner to thit Propasant Call Capt Partles- generally a shipping at this voyage a Henter Conference – Cosen s heave an Bushilsh paid White promitions Agrin with Chanvet- aged he writes Decailet proceluce or Khillac, someille, devie &c, & Instructs to Divo. bet tobectons complets of Idimiptine action Consider toaph to contral demabiligtion a sinds Goued Iam Mlay of Demth Irvendure, igter Ceaving thnd T.H. McC. I K.C.B. HCay Reter of Franing Ilfe- being benshed He t hey Adminanat Ihisam to amnn a specf Mateo 100d tee Actfollit not in Dinin Story t Caspe a prpssny Dempb ya mspapes.- mn lile will wht Coups to be redered to a A Cinits hrs Unit Beoths For Hobbs & Semos Officers. show Hable letter in shipping Pearse an Increasel pay to Demobilizeos. Special privileges to Denob Staffs - late. (Tan
7/19 f Afence to Frime Muister S 1 Cable on early Embarkations I to send 2. Embarkation frvn English Ports H.0. letter. Any Council desision I to draft letter for him 3. My whole Scheme, tei orsnt Lennd Conmnncen. 32 I Leave from Eggpt f th esth Ept, ast the ne mriny, if they ast to much thy might wreck sehee 4 Inbristence Allowance t Beant He sa OK /g0 on paying I shall cable t making Subsistence 28/- up to 42/- I to go apent astnon -military amployment Srcate foeedon se fables of Aerial post. - (Nrvick to find out.) table Peace I shall cable white trghe away.]
Agenty Staff Agaida P.P.G. te herlingto t paro Saate sim treat Dennot kannel tisot watue Milic Gatostor mo Sie S M Hll Lookt ar an itngant thaperecos. Tor up takens t te GoStr want ro necomotiton her. Admit telephond to White Hatification to ths office Whithe. SelDs Rjulation for Denob. 9 fet persuent annooyous p th Specet Envoy to Axstratis of MEof Gt. description of Act him & procedtute Substitute for Somewette Paymt ccp Do to Ms Shilts 571/19 Li Cibbeter epromitions of Staffo. (uther) Dngeng lonentalibestion ble Geae appeting suffciency, tat his mt aso catioc Robertson capplton bedipt obeo collecting but hat. troptans spittes &atsabi tabler She potem Daast Muot D LDCaman Sant Dinnctis MMomentan Chr Hairs stamcentl
5/1/19 voyage Rough propramine. Leave Sydney- March 5 Reach Hisco Marh 26 Resd N. York April 1 Each London Apil 18 Letters from London to reach Hiseo - post up to March 5.- (allow 21 days) to reach New York (allow 14 days) post up to Marsh &N.18. Ask Paoke to verify that Venture has sailed. Agenda:- 1. Write Van Raalte - piving apprax itinerary, telling Ventura, & my letter to T. Cook, Wisso. 2. Angestary in hondon of Cools have offc i ap sis that letter in ting wish be at Gots Jas San Kasltis a Writ Dc t tCooks) at Frish up to Mark 5. do to Van Keptte H. Yook up to 18. 5. Instruct V. to calle Vour Raath from Frince, giving date of advival in N. York & to look after Attantis passay V. to cable me Denbbaust, Londono fiving Ship & date of Sailing tom N

First Envelope so addressed.
Lt. Genl. Sir John Monash.
G.C.M.G. K.C.B
A.I.F.
M.N.Z. 

 

G.O.C. 1st Aust. Div
            2nd
            3rd
            4th
            5th
  "Aust. Corps (for information) 
My dear General.
A day or two ago, my Department promulgated General Instructions
No which contains an explanation of the whole procedure, for the
selection & despatch, by Division, of future personnel for repatriation.
I am now writing to request that, after you & your staff have had
an opportunity of studying these orders in detail, you will be so kind as
to write me whether the matter is clear to you, and whether you consider 
you will be able to operate the procedure smoothly, and with a minimum
of grumbling on the part of the men. -
I am afraid that I have had to cast upon Divisional Commanders
a somewhat heavy burden of work responsibility in respect to
the composition of their Embarkation Groups. But the only alterative
would have been to have all this work done by the Officers of this Department,
which would have meant practically taking all control of the
Division out of the hands of its Commander. - Moreover, I think it is
likely to be much better done by those who are in close touch with the
whole of the affairs of the Divisional group, than by extra-Divisional
officers. -
The main object of the scheme is to secure a regular, simple and
expeditious routine, which will a the same time safeguard t the
officers & men all precedence rights which they have acquired under
 previously published regulations. - But there are a good many some other 
other points to be considered.
When we ^thus commence 'bleeding the Divisions on a wholesale scale,
the remainder, at any point of time, must of course continue to exist
as an organized formation properly supplied and administered.
This is where your principal difficulty will arise, for you will be
in the position of constantly having to reconstruct and reorganize
your command, as Units become depleted or entirely disappear,
and of having to preserve the balance between the supply ^size of the administrative services
& the ^total numbers of troops who have to be administered. - To do this,
while at the same time releasing ^all those who are entitled to go, is going
 

 

to be a complex business, but I am afraid that these difficulties
are, in any case, inevitable. -
While not desiring to hamper you ^in the choice of your method of carrying out your in detail
^these instructions which have been issued (and it is for this reason that
details have been detailed instructions as to para 12 have purposely
been omitted) I wish to offer one or two suggestions for your consideration. -
Instead of treating your Divisional group as one entity, it may 
prove very expedient to divide it into three approximately equal
Brigade Groups. - Your first ^Embarkation quota would be allocated to A Brigade
Group, your next to B Brigade group & so on in rotation. This would
mean that each Brigade Group would have about a month between
its respective quotas, during which it can be methodically reorganized
& troop movements can take place deliberately. - It would I think imagine,
cause less disorganization for the Division as a whole, for each Brigade
Troop to lose 1000 men all at once, & then have a month on a fixed
basis, rather than for the Division to lose 1000 men every 10 days,
spread over all all the Units of the Division.& ^And it should, moreover help to solve problems of ^ordinary London or Paris leave.
In connection with such reorganization of groups, you should not
hesitatey to act boldly, both by coalescing Units for administrative
purposes, by totally depleting extinguishing some of the small Units, by tempo freely
making temporary transfers of personnel (particularly of train companies
and ambulances) and by getting Corps & Army approval
to your carrying out a bold ^comprehensive geographical shrinkage of your billeting
areas, consonant with the shrinkage in your numbers. - I am
quite aware that, academically, a Unit of ought to continue
to exist until the last of the 1918 men are ready to leave; but we
are faced with a problem of steady dissolution, and we must
not ^be xxxxxxxx  complicate matters by being be too academic, especially in the later stages. -
A juncture xxxxxx will ^finally arrive when you are could reduce your
whole Division to two Brigade Groups, by temporarily forming Brigades
of 4 or 5 (depleted) Battalions, or Battalion Artillery Brigade of 6 Batteries,
letting the ^one third of the Brigade Staffs go; & finally to a single Brigade Group, when
it would be time for the Divisional Staff to go. -
I have been at special pains to evolve a scheme which should be as
definite & simple as possible, as that every man might be able to form
/P.T.O
 

 

some approximate conception of the probable time he will still have
to remain away from home. - The result exactly bears out what I
foreshadowed in my initial Address, viz:- that, even when we get
our demobilization going at the (probably) maximum rate of 500 men
per day, it is going to involve that most 1916 men & all 1917 & 1918
men will be on our hands for many months to come. -
I trust therefore that no false conception will arise among the men
that, because the machinery shows signs of starting work, there
therefore all will get home very soon. This ^inference would lead to great
disappointment, & would ^tend to defeat our hopes of getting men in large
numbers to volunteer for education or industry. - I sincerely
hope that you will make it your special business to inspire your
Command with a correct outlook, and that you will continue every
effort to induce men of later categories to come to England for useful
transition work. -
One last point. - I hope it is quite clear from para 2 that the
general machinery of demobilization which is the subject of this letter
in no way touches or concerns all the 'special cases' for which I
have already legislated, all of whom will be dealt with, individually,
on totally different lines.
Will you kindly acknowledge safe receipt of this letter, direct to me personally.
With Kindest regards
Yours very sincerely.
[N.B. - Ultimately get 10 copies, i.e. 2 for file & 1 for Whitlam & 1 for D.D.G]
 

 

3/1/19
Drafts
Australian Corps
For General Birdwood aaa. My
personnel Branch dealing with
Education Employment and all individual
special cases is expanding
rapidly and growing beyond capacity
of present head of Branch Durrant
aaa I consider it essential appoint
over him best available officer with
organizing ability aaa Can Colonel
Bruche be made available and report
here earliest possible. aaa Monash
Demobaust. -
A I F HQrs.
5th Army. 

 

Abn &
3/1/19
Copy file
D.D.G.
[[*R/
[[??]]
draft*]]
G.O.C. 1st
            2nd
            3rd
            4th
            5th
 Australian
Corps H.Q (for information)
My dear General.
Some Cases have occurred of personnel from Units having been
granted discharges, early repatriation &c by officers of an without ^previous
reference to Divisional & Unit Commanders. - I greatly regret
this, which was due to the inexperience of some of my Staff. -
I have taken steps to ensure that it will not occur again.
On the other hand, numerous cases occur where, the
man concerned being clearly, in my judgement, entitled to
one or the other of the benefits provided for in my General
Instructions, reference to Unit Commanders has elicited
the response "not approved' or words to that effect. -  
I am therefore writing you to ask you to explain to your Unit
Commander that the only circumstance which would justify
a Commander in refusing to agree to the withdrawal of
an officer or man from his Unit, is when he is militarily
indispensible. - It would in deed have to be an extreme
case where a man's allotted duties would not be equally
well done by another; such as the case of a member of a
Headquarter's staff. - In no case would a C.O. be justified
in replying 'not approved' or in refusing to sign the form,
merely because he did not agree to the man receiving the
benefit applied for. - That is for me & my officers to decide.
and we, of course, act upon ^cables & other [[advice??]] from outside which is not available to the C.O. -
All the C.O. has got to certify to is that the man can be
spared; except only in the case of men of bad character when
I should expect to be told of it for my guidance in giving
a decision. -
The whole policy of my Department is ^while protecting ourselves against imposture
of every individual man as far as circumstances permit.
This is some small compensation for the sacrifices which we have
for four years call upon all to make. -
I trust therefore that you will take steps to see that the
approval of C.O's is not arbitrarily withheld in such cases
Yours sincerely
Lt Gen.
 

 

3/1/19
RLC
Demob
Agenda
Action in Egypt generally
Liaison Australia
Liaison Egypt
Liaison G.H.Q.

Whole Ordnance Question (Conference)
Decision as to Equipment to be taken by the man
Consider Pelman instruction in Corps
Disposal of prisoners & field punishment people,
Orders & Closing Canteens & Regimental Funds & a/s. [Coods & Evans]
Read Demob. Reqs.
Liverpool, with Somerville
Brief for Propaganda speakers (Denny)
Div. Commander select men for Unit Propaganda
Call Capt. Parker - generally re shipping - also [[??]] voyage on Ventura
Conference - Coxen & Leave
Burchell & his probable departure .
Write re promotions.
Again with Chauvel - after he writes.
Detailed procedure re Whitlam, Somerville, Davies &c, & Instructs. to Divs. -
General Robertson's complaints re Indiscipline - actions. -
Consider Graph to control Demobilization.
Study & index General Instructions.
Issue Story of Demob. Procedure, after leaving Unit.
J.W.McC. for K.C.B.
McCay - Return of Training Stores - being blocked - We to keep Adminanst. -
Whitlam to arrange a special Quota of 1000 from A.I.F. Units not in Division
Story to Corps re progress of Demob. Ignore newspapers. -
New man in Lieu Somerville (White)
Corps to be reduced to a small Administrative Unit.
Berths for Hobbs & Senior Officers.
Show Hobbs letter re shipping
Pearse re [[?Ina??]] pay for Demobilization.
Special privileges to DCmob. Staffs - Later. (Pearson)
 

 

R
5/1/19
Agenda for Prime Minister
1. Cable re early embarkations.     √
2. Embarkation from English Ports ↨ Army Council decisions     √
W.O. letter                                                   I to draft letter for him to sign
3. My whole Scheme.     √
3.A X Leave from Egypt. - Expressed General Concurrence. -     
to cable Egypt, ask how many, if they ask too much they
might wreck scheme
Copy to Borwick.
4. Subsistence Allowance      √
He said "O.K - go on paying
I shall cable.
5. Making Subsistence 28/- up to 42/-     √
This not xxxxxxx. -
I to go ahead as to non-military employment.
______
Greater freedom re Cables. -     √
Assist post. - (Borwick to find out.)    
Cable Pearce I shall cable while Hughes away. - X
 

 

5/1/19.
Agenda
Staff Agenda
 

D.D.G. Lieu C White
No headings to G.I. paras. - re promotions of Staffs (Lukin)
exp. of entitled to go
home.
Hasten issue General Demob. - Coxen - Calibration File
Returned prisoners routine. - General [[??ppating??]] inefficiency. -
McNicoll's Motor Car. - Want him master all our orders & }
criticise                                                  }
G.I. - re increased '[[Minesmen ??]] Robertson's complaints re indiscipline
Rise for Mess Hall. Problem of collecting 'bad hats'.
Peck as an itinerant Supervisor. - Aeroplane Matter & Australian Cables
Put up [[Lukin??]]. - (to White). - Show pro forma & [[D??]] & Question
G.O.C. wants no accomodation here.  
A direct telephone to White.  
Notification to War Offices re Whitlam  
D.M.S. Reputation for Demob. of Med. personnel.  
Para - re 1 off. & 5 A.A.M.E. for trans.  
Special Envoy to Australia (& McCay)  
G.I. descriptive of Q.I. Form & procedure  
Substitute for Somerville  
Paymaster 2.D. (Somerville)
My [[ser??]] Resent Director of Movements - re Clearing House
3 trains wanted.
Rise for Miss Halls.  


 

 

5/1/19
V's voyage
Rough programme.
Leave Sydney - March 5
Reach Frisco - March 26
Reach N.York - April 1
Reach London - April 10
_____________________
Letters from London
to reach "Frisco - post up to March 5. -
(allow 21 days)
to reach New York
(allow 14 days) post up to March 27. 18. -
Ask Parker to verify that Ventura has sailed.
Agenda:-
1. Write Van Raalte - giving approx itinerary, telling Ventura, &
my letters to T. Cook, Frisco.
2. Ascertain in London, if Cook's have office in Frisco
3. Cable Vic that letters in Frisco will be at Cooks, & in N. York
at Van Raalte's.
4. Write Vic to T. Cook's at Frisco up to March 5.
           do       to Van Raalte N. York up to   "       18.
5. Instruct V. to cable Van Raalte from Frisco, giving date of
arrival in N. York & to Cook after Atlantic passage
V. to cable me Demobaust, London, giving Ship & date of
sailing from N.Y.





















 

Edit this transcription

Log in Sign up

Last edited by:
Jasmine HatharasingheJasmine Hatharasinghe
Last edited on:

Last updated: