General, Sir John Monash, Personal Files Book 21, 25 November - 31 December 1918 - Part 12

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16/12/18
Somerville.
1.  Don't see him often enough.
2. Cabins for General Officers.
3. Careful estimates, - probable N^o of trips
(a) Scale of accommodation - most comfortable
& adequate scale
(b) D.M.S. opinion, & definite minutes desired
(b) Definite standard scale of ships' staffs
(c) Ample notices to me, as to conserving
officers & N.C.O.'s for all staffs.
4. Heitman to be Inspector of Transports - on his Staff.
5. Entertainment on voyage - (Dexter)
Let A.I.F. have some clear notification of
(a) leave (b) finance on disembarkation.-
See McCay re 7 or 10 days' notice.
Cable report to Australia to effect of
What effective date we become
responsible - pay for Orontes

16/12/18
Demob.
Agenda.
D.D.G. - "Weekly despatch to Australia.
Briefs for propaganda speakers (Denny)
Drs Commanders select men in Units for propaganda.
Formation of Unit Cadres. (Whitham & Leane.)
Employment Application Cards to cover all conditions, -C. O. to say he can be spared
no guarantee
Scheme for order in which Units will be taken.
Scheme for "weigh-billing" from France,-
Pre-embarkation leave, - further develop.
Maintenance & Supply of Formations, - as they become depleted,-
Notify through G.I. - conditions of leave, pay & deferred pay - to all - on disembarkation
Sommerville's report re Ship Scale of Accommodation.
Sommerville's Scale of Ship's Staffs.
Burchall to see Heitman & Sgt Wilson, M.L.A. for Collie
Base kit bags for embarkation.-
Constitution of 'Embarkation Groups' - Date or Unit or Territorial Destination.
Post graduate Courses.
General B. & Heitman & Commission. - Navy won't let him on board.-
He prefers go [[then?]] me.-
Notification in G.I. - no openings in permanent forces for A.I.F. -
Somerville - Ask if "Shipping Control persist giving dates which they find enable realize."
See Capt. Parker - generally re shipping - also Vics' voyage & Ventura to.
Issue of "Repatriation Precedence Rolls" - Landed over to D.D.G.
D.D.G. & Question of Blake.
Ascertain when Whitham expected.
Conference Somerville & Heitman - he to be an [[?]]
Ask General B. approve A.F.C. Cadets to complete training - they keen.
Go Liverpool or other port with Somerville early next year.
H Somerville - definite recording all ships.
Replace Durrant.
Question of Cable to Melb. re Barrowclough's cable
M^r Nicoll's Car
Question of returned prisoners
Foott to see Hughes to apologize.
Bruche.
White re Bruche.

16/12/18

Demob.

Agenta Remanets.

Blake's functions - Conference.

Free Railway Warrants on Disembarkations.

Action in Egypt generaly.

Problem of Gradual Shrinkage of Formations.

Liaison Australia

Liaison Egypt

Liaison G.H.Q.

Whole ordnance Question - (Conference)

Complete list A.I.F. Units

Concrete proposals re absorbing odd A.I.F. Units

Punishment for men A.W.L. on embarkation (await reply to Cable)

Retention of Steel Helmet & Gas Mask (Concerns' report)

Decision as to Equipment to be taken by the men.

Consider Relman Instruction in Corps.

Future Constitution of A.M.F., Whether a Corps H.Q

Disposal of prisoners & field punishment people.

Qualifying men here for employment in A.M.F.

Orders re Closing Canteens & Regt's funds & a/s.

Await M^cColl for 3.D- or Ridley

Read Demob. Regs.

Liverpool, with Somerville, after New Year.

Durrant's Status.

Brief for Propaganda Speakers (Denny)

Div. Commanders select men for Unit Propaganda

Scheme for order in which Units to be taken

Maintenance & Supply of Formations - as they become depleted.

Constitution of 'Embarkation Groups' - Date or Unit or Territorial Destinations

Heitman & General B. re his Commission.

Call Capt. Parker - generally re shipping - also Vic's voyage on Ventura

Return of Deegan.

Para in G.I. re M^cNiccol's apptment.

Conference - Coxen & Leane.

See General Birdwood on Foott. Vice White "Organization of post [[bellman?]] Imperial Army"

3 to 5 - 5 days a week. - 

See McCay re Conversion of U.K. Depôts - from drafting to France, to drafting to Australia.-

Regularize 1915 me despatch.

16/12/18
Urgent Agenda.
D.D.G.
Durrant's proposal to absorb Admin. H.Q.
Want Conference with him Blake - when latter arrives.-
Prepare Concrete proposal for merging odd units of A.I.F. into Divisions
Want complete list A.I.F. Units.-
Get any cables from Defence, turning down employment of A.I.F or A.M.F.
Question of Unit Cadres - Units must know early.-
In first cable to Australia - make clear what date we [[assigned?]] effective control
over shipping
We to get Ridley - not McColl.-
Has he act4ed, re pool of 3000 of 1915- (Sen.B.) ? room in depôts,-
Discussion re Rooms, & future locations.
General B.
Durrant the only Sn Col. we asked for.3
Foott & Pool. - 3000. -
of 1915
[Hurry up McColl. - Ridley. -                        Show him
Barbers post graduate course                   P.M's policy papers.
Necessity for not rushing men                  Several Instructs
out Ships - pay matters - 7 days.               Draft of Precedence Rolls.
See [[?]] Hughes re MP's & their Hony. Rank, (Heitman).-
Promotion of Pay Sgts.- Evan's paper-
Other B. Agenda list
'Extended Leave' paper √
Leave to Paris for Nurses. √
Berwick  Request re Heitman
outstanding - Allowances to Officers & London Staff.-
Priorities
Pay to employed men.
Precedence Rolls
McCoy 7 day's notice to pay people prior to embarkation.
Evan's complaint - see his file.-
Pool . 3000 bat of 1915.
General B. at 9.45 tomorrow.-
re Giving up St. Budeaux.
283.
Hughes.
Everything hung up.-
Priorities length of service -
Allowances.- Must issue
Pay to employed men.-
Can make no headway
Can't get the staff
Can't get [[acc?]]-
Stations-
Shipping Control difficulty

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18/12/18.
Conference with Prime Minister
1. Can't make headway - everything being hung up
one thing depends on another
Difficulties re (a) Staff
(b) Accomodation.
2. Delays owing to references to Australia:-
(1) Pay & allowances to employed men
28/- — same as all rest - 3000 involved.
immense difficulties if increased.
Why not issue this order at once?
Whole employment question depends upon it.
(2) Precedence of Repatriation
Length of Service is Chief Criterion - fundamental
All contingent arrangements hung up, until
I issue this.
(3) Allowances to Staff -
people grumbling - particularly M.Ps'.-
3. Shipping Control difficulties - they persist in giving embarkation
dates, which they find themselves unable to realize.
4. Stop numerous Channels of Communication to Australia:-
e.g. High Commissioner (Buckley) cables defence re A.F.C.
give examples.
5. Burchell's report - last page - what national industries.
Can we or ought we ask men Cab for guarantee of service in Australia?
6. A limitation of our 'employed' - say we guarantee not to
exceed 25000?-
x
7. Industries which Australia wishes to encourage -
Press cables to High Commissioner.-
Manufacturing of Telephone
material
Babcock, Wilcox-
Iron & Steel
Potteries.
Chemical
Industries
ships
engines
turbines
aircraft engines
= tin plates

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Drafts
18/12/18
John A.F. Aspinall Sg.
President
Institution of Civil Engineers
Great George St
Westminster S.W.
My dear Sir
Your letter of Dec 16 has just reached
me and I wish desire without delay to convey to
you my feelings of deep appreciation for same,
and for the honor you have done me in conveying
to me, on behalf of the great Institution
in whose name you speak, your Congratulations
Couched in such cordial and generous
terms. —
I cannot but feel the greatest satisfaction
at finding that my efforts during the past four
years have gained the approval and recognition
of my Colleagues in the Engineering profession,
and particularly of my fellow members
of the Institution which we delight to honour.
With many sincere thanks. —
Yours faithfully

and welfare of our men; but the difficulty
that is always present is to provide adequate safeguards
against the abuse of privileges that it is sought to grant. —
Probably the only effective way,- speaking broadly - is to make the
grant of such privileges ∧such as leave, early repatriation, allowances for
sustenance & the like, discretionary, - so that they can be
withheld in cases where there is reason to think that the circumstances
of the application are not bona fide.
Lc Gen
to do.

[*M*]
18.12.18.
[*Copies sent*]
[*to D.D.G*]
[*& LtCol. Berwick*]
NOTES OF INTERVIEW WITH PRIME MINISTER
on 18th DECEMBER, 1918.
1. Explained to the Prime Minister that this Department
cannot make much headway as long as decisions are held up.-
One things depends upon another.- Delay in any one given
matter influences a number of other matters depending upon it.
There are also difficulties in not being able quickly to get
the members of the staff requisite to carry on with.- There
are also very great difficulties about accommodation. All
these operate seriously to delay tangible results.
2. The question of pay and allowances to employed men
was debated.- I pointed out that any increase on the proposed
28/- per week basis, would affect possibly 30/,00/ other men
already employed in England. I urged that the order as drafted
should be issued at once, it being always possible hereafter to
increase the minimum weekly subsistence allowance. The urgency
of the matter lay in the fact that the whole employment question
depended upon our being able to proannounce to our men the
financial terms upon which we could employ them.- After further
discussion the Prime Minister agreed to the issue of the policy
as recommended by me but re-stated in such a way that if there
were any increase given hereafter in the weekly minimum subsistence
allowance, it would not be made to appear that this
increase was the result of any pressure brought to bear by
dissatisfied men.
3. On the question of precedence of repatriation, I
pointed out that it is urgently necessary to tell the A.I.F. what
the basis was going to be. Mr. Hughes pointed out that if the
Employment Scheme were to break down, it might be necessary to
repatriate men much more rapidly than we at present intended to
do.- But I replied that in any event some logical order of
precedence was necessary,and that in fact we had already
definitely embarked upon the policy of repatriating in order of
length of service.- Ultimately the Prime Minister agreed to
the present scheme being published as a basis to build our
executive action upon.
4. I explained the difficulties owing to the Shipping
Control people persisting in giving embarkation dates which they
find themselves unable to realise.- Mr. Hughes asked for
specific examples and said he would remonstrate in the right
quarter.
5. I specified instances where officials were cabling to
Australian Government Departments on matters which were the
business of this Department, and said that only confusion could
result if this practice were persisted in.- Mr. Hughes said
he would assist me to stop the practice.
6. On the question of possible difficulties with the Labour
Unions and industries of England as regards the absorption of
our men, when I represented that I thought the difficulties would
be largely removed if we could guarantee to limit our requests to
a specified number of men, the Prime Minister assented to my
committing the Government to a declaration that under no circumstances
would they ask for more than a grand total of 20,000 men
to be employed as wage earning workers in British workshops or
industries.
[*P.*]
[*File*]
[*JM*]
[*22-12-19*]

- 2 -

7. After a very long discussion, at which Sir Joseph

Cook was present, Mr. Hughes finally decided that no attempt

should be made to establish Government National Workshops

in England, for the purpose of training our men for future

employment in national industry in Australia, Although he

agreed that he had originally proposed that I should undertake

this activity, he now directed that no further action

in this regard should be taken,but that I should confine

myself to finding employment with private manufacturers, etc.

in those industries which are likely to find a home in

Australia through private enterprise.

8. The industries which the Ministers present thought

would be likely to be important to Australia in the future

were chiefly : -

(a) Iron and steel industries, such as

shipbuilding, engine and turbine

construction, aircraft engines,

tin plates.

(b.) Chemical industries.

(e) Potteries.

(d) Agricultural industries.

Messrs Babcock & Wilcos Ltd. were mentioned as manufacturers

likely to establish industries in Australia, and possibly

willing to train Australian soldiers here for that purpose.

9. The manufacture of telephone equipment and material

was also mentioned as one which might possibly hereafter become

a purely Government industry seeing that the telephone

system was Government property; but no instruction given

that I should take any action in England to this end.

54, Victoria St.

London, S.W.1.

John Monash

Lieut.-General.

Director -General.

Repatriation & Demobilisation, A.I.F.

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Draft only
[6 Copies]
20/12/18
1. In addition to the Educational Agencies already in operation within the
Units and Depôts of the A.I.F., steps are being taken ∧ by this Department to provide, in the immediate
future, opportunities for all members of the A.I.F. to take advantage of
the period, while waiting for embarkation, to improve their future prospects in
life, and to aid them ∧ assist themselves in the transition from military employment to their
future citizenship.-
2. These opportunities will, it is hoped, cover a wide field, & will embrace not
only merely purely educational work, - both cultural & vocational, - but also industrial
employment in various grades, from apprenticeship to full
wage-earning.-
3. All Members of the A.I.F. who are waiting desirous of availing themselves of
these advantages must apply in the manner set out hereunder; and, if
approved for "non-military employment" by their Commanding officers and
by this Department, will be struck off the strength of their Units, and transferred
to special military formations, in France or United Kingdom, and
will be to be there administered by this Department until they are due for ∧retransfer to their units or for embarkation.
4. This administration covers pay, clothing ∧ & necessaries, quarters, rations, medical and
dental supervision and also ∧ includes quarters & rations when not employed or in receipt of subsistence ∧as per See parpa 13.
- The soldier, although struck off the strength of his
Unit, will not lose his identity with that Unit, & will be repatriated as a
member of that Unit, and, where practicable ∧ in company with his comrades ∧ but in any case as a member of his Unit.
5. The financial terms which will be, offered to all men soldiers seeking such "non-military
employment" will be are on liberal and generous lines; an indication
of their nature is these terms being set out in para 13 below.-
6. It is to be understood that, in xxxxxxx as the wishes of the soldiers themselves
will be consulted, as far as possible, it will not be possible to provide
suitable openings for all ∧ most of the applicants until ∧ after their wishes have been communicated
xxxx to this Department, and time has been allowed to take the necessary
actions thereon.
7. It is not desired (in any way to limit the choice of the individual
soldier as to the character of the 'non-military employment' which he
desires. to undertake. But the following ∧ list, (which is not intended to be
exhaustive,) gives a general indication
of the kind of employment which this Department has in [[?]], [[?]].-
(at Experience ∧and training as a learner ∧apprentice or improver in all classes of
xxxxx Commerce
and Industries (including [[?]] pursuits)